Nintendo of America is suing the creators behind the Nintendo Switch emulator Yuzu, claiming their tech facilitates piracy.
New documents filed Monday, February 26 reveal that videogame giant Nintendo is taking action against the creators of the popular emulator tool Yuzu.
The copyright infringement filing, from Nintendo of America, states that the Yuzu tool (from developer Tropic Haze LLC) illegally circumvents the software encryption and copyright protection systems of Nintendo Switch titles, and thus facilitates piracy and infringes copyright under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).
Nintendo alleges that Tropic Haze’s free Yuzu emulator tool unlawfully allows pirated Switch games to be played on PCs and other devices, bypassing Nintendo’s protection measures.
The official Yuzu website suggests that the tool is to be used with software you yourself own: “You are legally required to dump your games from your Nintendo Switch” — but it’s common knowledge, that this is not how these tools are primarily used.
I wonder if they’re going after Switch emulators now because the emulation capability is matching the product lifecycle, and that the patreon page makes the Yuzu team legally targetable.
If we’re in for a repeat of GC -> Wii in the sense of the Wii being a more powerful GC, then Yuzu is potentially already close to being able to emulate the next gen Nintendo console out of the gate.
If that is the case, that’s just par for the course when you’re dealing with nearly decade old hardware.
I’m very uninformed here, haven’t gamed in a few years. But I’ve got a question- is yuzu software that is run on a rooted Switch device, or similar like a steam deck? Or do you run it on a computer? Or perhaps, it’s all of the above.
Anyway, thanks in advance if someone could give me a high level overview
Steam Deck is just a Linux computer, but it runs on any computer running Linux, Windows, or apparently Android, with capable hardware. It looks like it isn’t ready for Mac yet, though Ryujinx supposedly is.
It doesn’t run on a rooted Switch as far as I’m aware, but I don’t see the point in that. There’s no need to emulate the hardware if you’re actually using the hardware.
To get the information you need to use it, you’ll either download it illegally or hack a switch (legally?) To get encryption keys and dump a copy of your game.
I heard about the keys and the other website that serves them, seems an extremely important detail. I imagine the game dumps/copies are available as disk images of some sort online?
It will be forked to a thousand other platforms, including private git repositories hosted locally. That cat is out of the bag and fortunately there’s not a damn thing they can do about it
The problem is with the development ceasing. The source code will remain, but if there’z no dedicated team developing bugs will not be fixed and features will not be added.
From what I understood, is that the team’s Patreon page is a means of making financial gains of emulating the Switch. This could be the reason why Nintendo is suing.
Well Vanced was a lot different, they were actually redistributing code from YouTube. They were asking to be sued and they got off really easy.
Whereas here, no code is being used afaik. They don’t even include the keys for the decryption for the console. So the only thing this can do is: decrypt game files once provided keys and then run an emulated graphics pipeline and logic process for said game.
Now I can see an argument about how Yuzu is specifically built to emulate the Switch which is a current product. Which makes this sketchy. But also it’s an emulator. What’s better is that breaking the law is not required to use the emulator. You can get your own rom rips and keys and use them with the emulator which gives it a legal purpose as a 3rd party application.
This is Nintendo just trying to scare them Id bet. Not a zero chance that Yuzu could lose though.
Only if you count suicides. The countries that don’t have guns still have suicides, so banning guns would not prevent those deaths.
That’s like if I was to say “only if you count fast cars. The countries that don’t have as many fast cars still have accidents, so speed limits should be universally abolished.”
Well, actually its not true, if you don’t have access to stuff that kills you basically instantly many people would think a little more before doing that, maybe even go to a therapist.
South Korea has no guns and people manage to jump off bridges just fine
SK has a much higher suicide rate than the US, so maybe the underlying issue should be fixed instead of trying to impose higher barriers to people trying to kill themselves
And yet there is a difference between legitimate accidents and deliberate killings…
Also, your road safety in muricaland is completely ridiculous and the cars that drive on your roads are hazardous as hell, maybe fix that and the rates of death from accidents go down.
Nintendo goes after those that make money. That includes ROM sites too. For example, Nintendo didn’t sue Dolphin developers, they told Valve to take down their software. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I am not saying that Nintendo goes only after those that make money but maybe a money papertrail takes away the anonymousness of the internet. Bank accounts makes finding people a whole lot easier.
Reverse engineering isn’t a IP violation… And the emulator group isn’t responsible for people using pirated software on it, that pirated stuff would run on the original hard and software as well.
Oh please, that’s the same argument of, “It’s not a bong, it’s a tobacco pipe.” Yeah, they might call it that to circumvent the law, but everyone knows damn well that 99% of users aren’t using it for that.
They’re profiting off selling a tool that breaks encryption and bypasses copyright protections. The profit is the issue here.
While I support their efforts, I can also realize that Nintendo absolutely has a right to try to stop them, and it’s not unethical for them to do so.
If you read the lawsuit Nintendo is suing because Yuzu acknowledges their software can’t run without the Switch’s decryption keys. Yuzu also has instructions to extract the decryption keys on their website. So Yuzu is not completely reverse engineering how the Switch runs games.
The keys aren’t something you can reverse engineer, they are a “security” feature and make shure that people can only use it when they own a switch and the game…
Legally, you’re allowed to make copies of games that you own and use them in an emulator. You can download mods, play multiplayer across the Internet when servers get shut down and also take advantage of better hardware and get better resolution and framerates, then there are quality of life improvements like savestates.
But let’s be real though. Getting a car and driving it a crowd on purpose is an extraordinarily small percentage of car users. You can’t say the same about emulation. A torrent site I frequent has 28000 downloads of Smash Bros Ultimate. I don’t believe for a second there are 28000 broken copies people are trying to replace.
Don’t get me wrong, I love emulation. It has huge benefits! Access to out of print games, higher framerates and resolutions. But I’m not going to pretend piracy isn’t a massive component of it, particularly on current gen systems.
You’re either missing the crux of the argument entirely somehow, or your rebuttal is complete shit on purpose.
None of your points are the fault of Yuzu’s creators.
Just like: gun manufacturers cannot be sued for school shootings, Salinger couldn’t be held liable for the frequency his seminal work was found in psychopaths’ belongings, and Oscar Meyer isn’t at fault when you lost a non-zero amount of their meat products up your ass. Just sayin’.
especially true for when manufacturers stop supporting the console you invested into, stops making replacement parts, issuing security patches, etc. Having the ability to make, repair and use copies of the games you purchase is critical to digital preservation.
In addition to “format shifting,” which is a well-recognized use case, and game preservation, which is a huge and under-recognized public interest in emulator development, emulators are also used for the development of homebrew software. E.g., there’s a port of Moonlight for the Switch, which lets you play Steam games streamed from a PC using your Switch, letting it serve many of the purposes of a Steam Deck. That’s huge! It would be way less practical to develop this kind of software if you could only test on real hardware. Testing on real hardware is also essential, of course, but testing on an emulator is vastly faster for rapid iteration.
Increased user accessibility, backing up and ensuring continued usability of purchased software, democratizing hardware choice, allowing for continued community support for software that has been abandoned, teaching people how software works in relation to different hardware…
They offer legal aid to high-profile open source cases. So if you want them to notice, raising awareness of Nintendo’s current actions against Yuzu is a good step
Nintendo has always been an anti-consumer shit company since at least the 80’s. Pirate their shit on principle alone, even if you never intend on playingit. Share it with as many as you can.
What about a technology permit, so you’re only allowed to develop technologized products if you get a permit from the Ministry of Proprietary Technology.
The EU’s AI Act isn’t far from this really. Regulating the development of AI so much, it’d be like if they regulated compilers to stop GNU back in the day.
The official Yuzu website suggests that the tool is to be used with software you yourself own: “You are legally required to dump your games from your Nintendo Switch” — but it’s common knowledge, that this is not how these tools are primarily used.
Yeah, so what?
It’s, legally speaking, not Yuzu’s domain to regulate what I can lawfully do within my own home with hardware I bought , or not. It’s not even Nintendon’t’s domain, and they are literally a Yakuza branch.
Might as well set the groundwork to make it easier to shut down any emulators for the new console. Can’t have old steam deck and others taking the handheld market
nintendos shitty hardware is the only thing keeping me from buying their excellent games. I would rather buy a steam deck and deal with all the associated bullshit getting an emulator working rather than purchase nintendo’s terrible plastic shit.
i sound angry, but thats because i am. i love their games, would give them my money to play them. BUT NOT on crap hardware. never, ever again, nintendo.
I don’t have a problem with the tech being old as long as the games are good, but the failure rate of their joycons and pro controllers is abysmal! I got a converter to use a PS5 controller on the Switch and it’s much better!
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I wonder if they’re going after Switch emulators now because the emulation capability is matching the product lifecycle, and that the patreon page makes the Yuzu team legally targetable.
If we’re in for a repeat of GC -> Wii in the sense of the Wii being a more powerful GC, then Yuzu is potentially already close to being able to emulate the next gen Nintendo console out of the gate.
If that is the case, that’s just par for the course when you’re dealing with nearly decade old hardware.
Fuck you Nintendo, nobody should give you a dime
I’m very uninformed here, haven’t gamed in a few years. But I’ve got a question- is yuzu software that is run on a rooted Switch device, or similar like a steam deck? Or do you run it on a computer? Or perhaps, it’s all of the above.
Anyway, thanks in advance if someone could give me a high level overview
Steam Deck is just a Linux computer, but it runs on any computer running Linux, Windows, or apparently Android, with capable hardware. It looks like it isn’t ready for Mac yet, though Ryujinx supposedly is.
It doesn’t run on a rooted Switch as far as I’m aware, but I don’t see the point in that. There’s no need to emulate the hardware if you’re actually using the hardware.
Yuzu, to my knowledge, is PC only.
To get the information you need to use it, you’ll either download it illegally or hack a switch (legally?) To get encryption keys and dump a copy of your game.
I heard about the keys and the other website that serves them, seems an extremely important detail. I imagine the game dumps/copies are available as disk images of some sort online?
Thanks a lot for the info, skankhunt42!
PC only implies it’s a windows program, yuzu runs on any x86_64 and ARMv8a or newer device.
Steamdeck(Linux), PC and Android.
Android, eh? Is it meant for phones, or is there a other set of android devices this is for?
It’s mainly meant for desktop I think. I suspect you need a very powerful android
Fuck Nintendo
This is why I will never buy a Nintendo console. I’m about to buy a Steam Deck… call me biased.
You’re biased.
😎
Download Yuzu now, sideload later. Just in case.
Go with Ryujinx. It’s a bit more accurate and works with a few more titles Yuzu may have issues with.
A lot of Yuzu’s problem was flying too close to the sun with their Patreon as well. Gave Nintendo ammo for a lawsuit there.
It’s an open source project. It’s always going to be out there. I am gonna go fork the repo just for the hell of it right now.
If Nintendo wins, the Github page and the website page will probably shutdown.
Forking it now is a good idea.
Specifically, to a different repo hosting provider, or a server you control
It will be forked to a thousand other platforms, including private git repositories hosted locally. That cat is out of the bag and fortunately there’s not a damn thing they can do about it
The problem is with the development ceasing. The source code will remain, but if there’z no dedicated team developing bugs will not be fixed and features will not be added.
From what I understood, is that the team’s Patreon page is a means of making financial gains of emulating the Switch. This could be the reason why Nintendo is suing.
Vanced NFT memories.
Well Vanced was a lot different, they were actually redistributing code from YouTube. They were asking to be sued and they got off really easy.
Whereas here, no code is being used afaik. They don’t even include the keys for the decryption for the console. So the only thing this can do is: decrypt game files once provided keys and then run an emulated graphics pipeline and logic process for said game.
Now I can see an argument about how Yuzu is specifically built to emulate the Switch which is a current product. Which makes this sketchy. But also it’s an emulator. What’s better is that breaking the law is not required to use the emulator. You can get your own rom rips and keys and use them with the emulator which gives it a legal purpose as a 3rd party application.
This is Nintendo just trying to scare them Id bet. Not a zero chance that Yuzu could lose though.
Cars are used for driving around but some people use it for accidents and drunk driving! Ban cars!
🤦
Would your comment be as sarcastic if you replaced cars with guns? Doubt it.
🤦
“Guns don’t kill people - people kill people. Guns defend people against people with smaller guns.”
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Eh… Guns are specifically made to kill something or make holes in it, so thats another thing.
And yet cars kill a lot more people than guns.
Not in the United States they don’t.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759/
Only if you count suicides. The countries that don’t have guns still have suicides, so banning guns would not prevent those deaths.
That’s like if I was to say “only if you count fast cars. The countries that don’t have as many fast cars still have accidents, so speed limits should be universally abolished.”
Well, actually its not true, if you don’t have access to stuff that kills you basically instantly many people would think a little more before doing that, maybe even go to a therapist.
South Korea has no guns and people manage to jump off bridges just fine
SK has a much higher suicide rate than the US, so maybe the underlying issue should be fixed instead of trying to impose higher barriers to people trying to kill themselves
Even putting pills in blister packs caused a statistically significant drop in OD suicides using OTC drugs.
Turns out that many people just need a bit of resistance to stop them from implementing a permanent solution to a temporary situation.
And yet there is a difference between legitimate accidents and deliberate killings…
Also, your road safety in muricaland is completely ridiculous and the cars that drive on your roads are hazardous as hell, maybe fix that and the rates of death from accidents go down.
I think @Fake4000@lemmy.world made a solid point here.
Nintendo goes after those that make money. That includes ROM sites too. For example, Nintendo didn’t sue Dolphin developers, they told Valve to take down their software. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I am not saying that Nintendo goes only after those that make money but maybe a money papertrail takes away the anonymousness of the internet. Bank accounts makes finding people a whole lot easier.
Nintendo behaves illigaly or at least absolutely amoral. If you make money with your product or not is not up to some other company to decide.
It is when the product is using their IP to violate copyright laws.
I fully support emulators and pirating, but I don’t lie to myself about it being legal or ethical.
Reverse engineering isn’t a IP violation… And the emulator group isn’t responsible for people using pirated software on it, that pirated stuff would run on the original hard and software as well.
Oh please, that’s the same argument of, “It’s not a bong, it’s a tobacco pipe.” Yeah, they might call it that to circumvent the law, but everyone knows damn well that 99% of users aren’t using it for that.
They’re profiting off selling a tool that breaks encryption and bypasses copyright protections. The profit is the issue here.
While I support their efforts, I can also realize that Nintendo absolutely has a right to try to stop them, and it’s not unethical for them to do so.
If you read the lawsuit Nintendo is suing because Yuzu acknowledges their software can’t run without the Switch’s decryption keys. Yuzu also has instructions to extract the decryption keys on their website. So Yuzu is not completely reverse engineering how the Switch runs games.
The keys aren’t something you can reverse engineer, they are a “security” feature and make shure that people can only use it when they own a switch and the game…
Amorally, probably. Ilegally? No, they are not.
Nintendo suing and pressuring around may be illigal in some countries where they operate… Especially regarding the steam thing.
So what purpose does an emulator server legally speaking? And I don’t think anyone uses their car for accidents.
Legally, you’re allowed to make copies of games that you own and use them in an emulator. You can download mods, play multiplayer across the Internet when servers get shut down and also take advantage of better hardware and get better resolution and framerates, then there are quality of life improvements like savestates.
Never heard of banger racing?
There have been multiple instances of cars being driven into crowds, accidents is probably not the right word, i should say terrorism.
And emulators are for people who bought a game for a console that broke, so now they play it on PC because they own the game.
But let’s be real though. Getting a car and driving it a crowd on purpose is an extraordinarily small percentage of car users. You can’t say the same about emulation. A torrent site I frequent has 28000 downloads of Smash Bros Ultimate. I don’t believe for a second there are 28000 broken copies people are trying to replace.
Don’t get me wrong, I love emulation. It has huge benefits! Access to out of print games, higher framerates and resolutions. But I’m not going to pretend piracy isn’t a massive component of it, particularly on current gen systems.
You’re either missing the crux of the argument entirely somehow, or your rebuttal is complete shit on purpose.
None of your points are the fault of Yuzu’s creators.
Just like: gun manufacturers cannot be sued for school shootings, Salinger couldn’t be held liable for the frequency his seminal work was found in psychopaths’ belongings, and Oscar Meyer isn’t at fault when you lost a non-zero amount of their meat products up your ass. Just sayin’.
especially true for when manufacturers stop supporting the console you invested into, stops making replacement parts, issuing security patches, etc. Having the ability to make, repair and use copies of the games you purchase is critical to digital preservation.
Exactly
In addition to “format shifting,” which is a well-recognized use case, and game preservation, which is a huge and under-recognized public interest in emulator development, emulators are also used for the development of homebrew software. E.g., there’s a port of Moonlight for the Switch, which lets you play Steam games streamed from a PC using your Switch, letting it serve many of the purposes of a Steam Deck. That’s huge! It would be way less practical to develop this kind of software if you could only test on real hardware. Testing on real hardware is also essential, of course, but testing on an emulator is vastly faster for rapid iteration.
They provide compatibility for software made to run on one platform to work on another.
Providing compatibility is one of the most protected use cases of reverse engineering in US law.
Lots of terrorist groups do.
Increased user accessibility, backing up and ensuring continued usability of purchased software, democratizing hardware choice, allowing for continued community support for software that has been abandoned, teaching people how software works in relation to different hardware…
Nonironically yes
Don’t mind me if I fork
Don’t fork, they go down if the original goes down. Download and reupload.
Or fork to a different system, e.g. Gogs/Gitea/ForgeJo/GitLab…
What’s the crowd funding site for Yuzu legal fees?
https://www.patreon.com/yuzuteam
Or you could wait until the EFF commits to representing Yuzu (like they did for youtube-dl) and donate to the EFF at that point
There’s a request on r/yuzu for a GoFundMe, but it has no response from the devs so far.
Any news on this?
They offer legal aid to high-profile open source cases. So if you want them to notice, raising awareness of Nintendo’s current actions against Yuzu is a good step
This.
That.
Nintendo has always been an anti-consumer shit company since at least the 80’s. Pirate their shit on principle alone, even if you never intend on playingit. Share it with as many as you can.
They should go one step further and ban the programming language as well the emulator was created in. That will show them!
Why stop there? Just ban everything that isn’t Nintendo. That’ll give em the old 1-2
I say we ban technology.
What about a technology permit, so you’re only allowed to develop technologized products if you get a permit from the Ministry of Proprietary Technology.
Big Brother is developing
Great idea comrade, glory to Arstotzka!
This may surprise you but Nintendo no think Industrial Revolution good for humanity.
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This may surprise you but Nintendo no think Industrial Revolution good for humanity.
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I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The EU’s AI Act isn’t far from this really. Regulating the development of AI so much, it’d be like if they regulated compilers to stop GNU back in the day.
Someone sue Nintendo for gatekeeping.
Yeah, so what?
It’s, legally speaking, not Yuzu’s domain to regulate what I can lawfully do within my own home with hardware I bought , or not. It’s not even Nintendon’t’s domain, and they are literally a Yakuza branch.
Yakuza branch? I want to know more, I hate Nintendo.
Might as well set the groundwork to make it easier to shut down any emulators for the new console. Can’t have old steam deck and others taking the handheld market
nintendos shitty hardware is the only thing keeping me from buying their excellent games. I would rather buy a steam deck and deal with all the associated bullshit getting an emulator working rather than purchase nintendo’s terrible plastic shit.
i sound angry, but thats because i am. i love their games, would give them my money to play them. BUT NOT on crap hardware. never, ever again, nintendo.
harrrumph
I swear if the next console gets stick drift as easily I won’t buy one.
I don’t have a problem with the tech being old as long as the games are good, but the failure rate of their joycons and pro controllers is abysmal! I got a converter to use a PS5 controller on the Switch and it’s much better!
Nintendo makes me want to emulate more and more
What are you playing on? I would play my switch more if the games weren’t so expensive.
Sold my switch years ago, I’m not playing switch games atm but I really can’t stand Nintendo’s policies like this!