Canuck here, and I really hate weighing in on your politics, but…
Biden is old.
An old politician, with policy experience, advisors, and hopefully at least enough common sense to step down if his health takes a turn.
Trump is also old.
And a lunatic. A criminal, a predator. No redeeming qualities whatsoever. A human shaped waste of space. When you guys voted for him last time, the rest of the world smacked their foreheads in astonishment and lost any respect for the voting populace of your country. We all honestly thought he was a joke right up until he won.
Every single thing you see online about Biden is an attempt to get enough sane people to abstain so the lunatics can squeak a victory out of sheer disgust.
Vote. Vote for a human being who means well, or vote for a bag of orange toxic waste shaped like a person.
But realize that all the crap about Biden is a blatant attempt to get you to stay home and not vote.
How many criminal charges…?
Seriously?
Thank you. I wish more people in my country would understand this.
“Whoa! Fascism in 4 years or in 50? How dare the Democrats move towards fascism, let’s not vote/vote for Trump instead!”
How this logic makes sense to anyone is beyond me. Domestic terrorism was the highest it had ever been through 2016 to 2020. People always say the left sleeps when it’s a democratic president, as if the right weren’t committing murder when Trump was in office.
Do you see Trump meaningfully curbing emissions? Because I see him disbanding every possible effort to lower emissions and lighting shit on fire just for fun.
Honestly I’m wondering if that ends up being much different than Biden? It’s not like we’re doing much right now to stop things. Maybe it takes four years of Biden to wipe out Gaza. Maybe it takes 4 months of Trump. The end result is genocide no matter what I do. At least then the democratic party might understand that you can’t play this game of lesser evils forever.
I’m so sick of this discussion. Your opinions and feelings don’t matter. The reality is you have a binary choice. Do you want A or do you want B? That’s the reality.
Regarding Gaza, do you want A) the current genocide, or B) a much bigger one? If you vote for a third party, you’re tipping the result towards B, because you were never voting for B in the first place.
Instead of voting for A, perhaps you could think of it as voting against B? Because those are the only two possible outcomes. Pick one.
I honestly think people left of center have lost their minds with this stuff.
I honestly think people left of center have lost their minds with this stuff.
You wonder how real some of these people are. They make a few topics the main reason to oppose Biden, but excuse them for any other politician, especially ones that will make it even worse. They always come off as non-American agitators. Many of which seem to be just Russian actors on top of that.
It’s worse than that. I have no idea why it’s apparently important enough to me for me to want to investigate as much as I have, but just from the last few days:
Here, I ask one of them what he thinks about a topic not connected to the election and he angrily refuses to answer because I must be trying to trick him or something.
Here one of them lapses into total nonsense when forced to go beyond his talking points; he says that Biden wasn’t trying hard enough to make change, and when I point out concrete ways that Biden actually enacted what he was talking about and was sometimes overruled on it, he said that Biden could have ignored the Supreme Court’s cancellation of his order because it “doesn’t have an enforcement arm”.
I have a bunch more examples. But generally they are articulate and on-the-surface sensible when spouting one of a handful of talking points in a variety of different contexts and with different decoration around them, but anything outside that, they react like no human being I’ve ever had a conversation with.
Which is why many of them probably aren’t. They’re agitators from outside the US. At best, very poorly informed people from other countries with some obsession with US politics. At worst, people intending to spread misinformation.
honestly think people left of center have lost their minds with this stuff.
despite all of the postering and hand wringing on lemmy, I dont think this is broadly true. in this insane moment, any still sane individual can see a demonstrable difference between the two candidates being shoved down our throats and, once again, hold their nose and pick the lesser of two evils in a national election.
with luck the orange clusterfuck remains out of office, and perhaps this country may finally have develped the maturity for a national conversation about (and push for) ranked choice voting - in spite of ruling class wishes.
I honestly think people left of center have lost their minds with this stuff.
I think the actual human people on Lemmy have their minds very much on-point about this stuff.
There are a handful of very vocal accounts who are saying a particular way to look at Biden that makes absolutely no sense if you examine it for 2 seconds, but they all behave in a particular type of way that isn’t really consistent with how people who genuinely believe the things they’re saying (whether right or wrong) behave.
Trump having a second term is not, like, an ambiguous or borderline situation. I think the vast, vast majority of actual human Lemmy people are not at all confused about what will be the results of “voting for Trump” vs. “voting for Biden” vs. “not voting” in this upcoming election.
I just want to ask the question, will Biden actually improve things once he isn’t worried about burning the good will of voters? Can we only ever vote for genocide, or genocide with an apology tacked on to the end of it?
But I just can’t see Biden meaningfully curbing emissions.
Biden’s climate plan was estimated to reduce US emissions by 40%. 40% five years from now is not nearly enough given the scope of the crisis, and I’d be surprised if it pans out exactly according to that estimate unless more action is taken, but I am floored that he was able to get that bill to pass through the current “climate change isn’t real please don’t look out the window” US government. What would you refer to as “meaningful” on this topic?
a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for the opponent. Everyone says this. I simply do not buy it.
Doesn’t matter what you “buy” it’s about what the data tells us.
But let’s set that aside. Want to know why voting 3rd party is a waste of time? Because suddenly people get passionate about it months before the general election. Where are y’all the other 3.5 years of the presidential term? Where are your local and state level candidates? Why do you feel entitled to my attention and vote if all people like you do is complain and hope for a moonshot third option at the last fucking minute when you refuse to be engaged the rest of the time?
Change takes work. Third party advocates need to get to work. Y’all are generally just lazy and entitled and disengaged, then come crying about how you’re not included every presidential election year. The data tells us this.
Yes, the deck is stacked against third-party candidates. Yes, it is going to be difficult. But I won’t really give a shit what you have to say until you actually put in a little elbow grease.
Do as you wish. Say you don’t want to debate Gaza but then debate Gaza in your post?
I’m with Biden and will do anything within reason to keep cheese turd out of the White House. If you are a 1 issue voter, so be it.
Trump would also support Israel. And since a third party has all the chances of a particularly small popsicle in hell, that means there’s no choice for or against supporting Israel. So you’re doing the only reasonable thing.
Yeah. The “lesser of two evils” used to be about a republican being republican, and a Democrat at least pretending to be left of center. It wasn’t genocide or genocide.
And people wonder why younger voters don’t engage with the system.
A vote for a 3rd party is a vote for the opponent. Everyone says this. I simply do not buy it.
That’s the part you got wrong. The voting system means that no 3rd party has a chance. Therefore you’d effectively abstain. And that means you don’t vote to keep the candidate you hate more out of the office.
And if you really think that Trump isn’t worse in every way to your interests as a leftist, you live in a deep hole under a rock.
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Canuck here, and I really hate weighing in on your politics, but… Biden is old. An old politician, with policy experience, advisors, and hopefully at least enough common sense to step down if his health takes a turn. Trump is also old. And a lunatic. A criminal, a predator. No redeeming qualities whatsoever. A human shaped waste of space. When you guys voted for him last time, the rest of the world smacked their foreheads in astonishment and lost any respect for the voting populace of your country. We all honestly thought he was a joke right up until he won. Every single thing you see online about Biden is an attempt to get enough sane people to abstain so the lunatics can squeak a victory out of sheer disgust. Vote. Vote for a human being who means well, or vote for a bag of orange toxic waste shaped like a person. But realize that all the crap about Biden is a blatant attempt to get you to stay home and not vote. How many criminal charges…? Seriously?
Thank you. I wish more people in my country would understand this.
“Whoa! Fascism in 4 years or in 50? How dare the Democrats move towards fascism, let’s not vote/vote for Trump instead!”
How this logic makes sense to anyone is beyond me. Domestic terrorism was the highest it had ever been through 2016 to 2020. People always say the left sleeps when it’s a democratic president, as if the right weren’t committing murder when Trump was in office.
Do you see Trump meaningfully curbing emissions? Because I see him disbanding every possible effort to lower emissions and lighting shit on fire just for fun.
Trump will not stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians either. It seems like he, or any other GOP president, would accelerate it.
Honestly I’m wondering if that ends up being much different than Biden? It’s not like we’re doing much right now to stop things. Maybe it takes four years of Biden to wipe out Gaza. Maybe it takes 4 months of Trump. The end result is genocide no matter what I do. At least then the democratic party might understand that you can’t play this game of lesser evils forever.
he wont tho.
even if hes popular, they wont let him.
I’m so sick of this discussion. Your opinions and feelings don’t matter. The reality is you have a binary choice. Do you want A or do you want B? That’s the reality.
Regarding Gaza, do you want A) the current genocide, or B) a much bigger one? If you vote for a third party, you’re tipping the result towards B, because you were never voting for B in the first place.
Instead of voting for A, perhaps you could think of it as voting against B? Because those are the only two possible outcomes. Pick one.
I honestly think people left of center have lost their minds with this stuff.
You wonder how real some of these people are. They make a few topics the main reason to oppose Biden, but excuse them for any other politician, especially ones that will make it even worse. They always come off as non-American agitators. Many of which seem to be just Russian actors on top of that.
It’s worse than that. I have no idea why it’s apparently important enough to me for me to want to investigate as much as I have, but just from the last few days:
I have a bunch more examples. But generally they are articulate and on-the-surface sensible when spouting one of a handful of talking points in a variety of different contexts and with different decoration around them, but anything outside that, they react like no human being I’ve ever had a conversation with.
Which is why many of them probably aren’t. They’re agitators from outside the US. At best, very poorly informed people from other countries with some obsession with US politics. At worst, people intending to spread misinformation.
despite all of the postering and hand wringing on lemmy, I dont think this is broadly true. in this insane moment, any still sane individual can see a demonstrable difference between the two candidates being shoved down our throats and, once again, hold their nose and pick the lesser of two evils in a national election.
with luck the orange clusterfuck remains out of office, and perhaps this country may finally have develped the maturity for a national conversation about (and push for) ranked choice voting - in spite of ruling class wishes.
We have this in Maine and fucking love it!
It’s so good! I’d love to see our neighboring states make the move to it or STAR voting
I think the actual human people on Lemmy have their minds very much on-point about this stuff.
There are a handful of very vocal accounts who are saying a particular way to look at Biden that makes absolutely no sense if you examine it for 2 seconds, but they all behave in a particular type of way that isn’t really consistent with how people who genuinely believe the things they’re saying (whether right or wrong) behave.
Trump having a second term is not, like, an ambiguous or borderline situation. I think the vast, vast majority of actual human Lemmy people are not at all confused about what will be the results of “voting for Trump” vs. “voting for Biden” vs. “not voting” in this upcoming election.
I just want to ask the question, will Biden actually improve things once he isn’t worried about burning the good will of voters? Can we only ever vote for genocide, or genocide with an apology tacked on to the end of it?
Biden’s climate plan was estimated to reduce US emissions by 40%. 40% five years from now is not nearly enough given the scope of the crisis, and I’d be surprised if it pans out exactly according to that estimate unless more action is taken, but I am floored that he was able to get that bill to pass through the current “climate change isn’t real please don’t look out the window” US government. What would you refer to as “meaningful” on this topic?
And republicans and will make it worse and the election is months away.
Give me a viable solution.
Doesn’t matter what you “buy” it’s about what the data tells us.
But let’s set that aside. Want to know why voting 3rd party is a waste of time? Because suddenly people get passionate about it months before the general election. Where are y’all the other 3.5 years of the presidential term? Where are your local and state level candidates? Why do you feel entitled to my attention and vote if all people like you do is complain and hope for a moonshot third option at the last fucking minute when you refuse to be engaged the rest of the time?
Change takes work. Third party advocates need to get to work. Y’all are generally just lazy and entitled and disengaged, then come crying about how you’re not included every presidential election year. The data tells us this.
Yes, the deck is stacked against third-party candidates. Yes, it is going to be difficult. But I won’t really give a shit what you have to say until you actually put in a little elbow grease.
Do as you wish. Say you don’t want to debate Gaza but then debate Gaza in your post? I’m with Biden and will do anything within reason to keep cheese turd out of the White House. If you are a 1 issue voter, so be it.
Trump would also support Israel. And since a third party has all the chances of a particularly small popsicle in hell, that means there’s no choice for or against supporting Israel. So you’re doing the only reasonable thing.
The only sane option is Biden. Take that how you like.
I’m right there with you. It’s tough, and there is no good answer.
Yeah. The “lesser of two evils” used to be about a republican being republican, and a Democrat at least pretending to be left of center. It wasn’t genocide or genocide.
And people wonder why younger voters don’t engage with the system.
There is clearly a worst option.
One of the two men you mentioned will win – barring a death before the election, either Biden or Trump will be elected.
All the wanking in the world isn’t going to result in a third option with even the remotest chance.
I don’t actually think a 3rd party will win. I’m more likely to write in “free Palestine” than pick a 3rd party.
But I’m wondering what I’m actually voting in favor of with Biden.
It’s pretty obvious you’re not a liberal at all. If not a foreign agitator, probably a right-wing kook.
That’s the part you got wrong. The voting system means that no 3rd party has a chance. Therefore you’d effectively abstain. And that means you don’t vote to keep the candidate you hate more out of the office.
And if you really think that Trump isn’t worse in every way to your interests as a leftist, you live in a deep hole under a rock.
Sure but that’s not the question I’m trying to answer. I want to know, what will Biden actually do as president?