The lessons from Twitter are clear: most people will not leave bad social media without a better replacement. They’re attached to their history, and attached to their routine. It getting worse does not change that.
Mastodon didn’t scratch the Twitter users’ itches, and it doesn’t look like Lemmy will scratch Reddit users’. These aren[t the people that populated the Internet 20 years ago.
They’re the people who never would have touched it, because it was too technical, had too high a barrier of entry, and saw it as niche.
It’s time to stop focusing on whether Reddit succeeds or fails. They’re not going to fail. Instead, it’s time to make an internet of niches again, for ourselves, without the Twitter and Reddit users.
You don’t need a better replacement. People just need something that keeps them in the app longer, these sort of “dark patterns” that are often mentioned. The app can be total shit, as long as it manages to engage users. That’s why something like Lemmy or Mastodon is not succeeding with the general population because they explicitly have been made not to utilise such things.
By “better”, I don’t necessarily mean of higher quality. Those dark patterns are often features from the point of view of the average user. Without them, they can feel lost, and they spurned their platforms of choice until they had them.
@Kichae@Ignacio it won’t fail - yet. Reddit is like Facebook 10 years ago. The people on it are mostly older and have built a community on it and don’t want to leave that. TikTok is where the new growth is. Younger crowds see the mess that is Reddit and Twitter and don’t even sign up.
I think it’s important to say that while history and routine are part of it, social networks are only as useful as they are populated. If your friends and people you follow are all on Twitter, you’re not going to jump to Mastodon. If the content creators start switching, people will likely follow… but they won’t switch unless their followers switch.
I switched to Mastodon when Twitter went to X, and cold Turkey dropped to Lemmy from Reddit when the API scandal hit and the only thing I miss is most of the reason I was in those platforms in the first place, the content creators.
I still go to Reddit for some communities that don’t have critical mass on Lemmy. Sure you can talk about programming or Linux here, but the more niche ones (like specific mods for specific games) are entirely absent.
But when I want to post something or create content, it goes here.
They’re the people who never would have touched it, because it was too technical, had too high a barrier of entry, and saw it as niche.
Yep. My dad uses Facebook, Reddit and Youtube now. I remember having conversations with him where he was confused about why anyone would ever want to use Facebook and what the point of Youtube is… it just wastes time. When I first exposed him to AMAs I thought he would be interested in, in like 2012, he was like “It’s really cool that you can talk to this person, but there’s so much noise and joking around… how are you supposed to follow it all?”
Now he posts on reddit for help with home improvement projects and watches youtube channels about classic cars and how to fix your garage door opener and talks about stuff he saw his other Boomer friends post on Facebook. He sends me unfunny Youtube videos of AI Deepfakes of Trump and Biden talking about how they pooped their diapers. It’s a weird role reversal, because now I’m like “I’ve left every single one of those enshittified platforms.” But it took him years to get on them. It would take him even longer to get off.
They’re the people who never would have touched it, because it was too technical, had too high a barrier of entry, and saw it as niche.
Yup, if anyone wants to “replace” these platforms, they need to make them very approachable to tech naive individuals. Most people have close to no technical skills, and nearly everyone on federated software seems to fail to recognize this.
Ultimately I am in agreement that we shouldn’t be trying to drop a replacement to these platforms directly in. We should be offering an alternative, something fundamentally different, because those platforms have failed to fulfill our desires and needs from social media on the internet.
I feel bad for users over there, at least the long time users who know what it was. I’ll admit, when I moved over here I felt genuine remorse, guilt, and anger. I realized I was literally going through mourning, which sounds silly for a website, but those were communities I joined over a decade ago that I was walking away from.
People have asked me why I started a Taylor Swift community over here, and it’s really because of those nice, friendly communities over on Reddit that I had to walk away from. I know how hard it was to leave those ones, so maybe I can run a couple of the ones that I enjoyed there to help the next wave of folks so they know there are some of us here already who have gone through it.
Emotional, probably, but honestly just felt betrayed and angry with how they treated us long time users, the ones who were there at the very beginning. They chose some hussy ill dressed homewrecker IPO over us long term stable and loving users.
I relate to this a lot. I was on Reddit for over a decade, too, when I left after the third-party apps shut down. I loved a lot of the discussion over there (once I got away from some of the big subs and found smaller ones), and still kind of miss it. There really was a period of sadness when I left. I’m trying to be active over here to help these communities grow, but it’s hard to get back into it and be motivated sometimes.
Yeah, sometimes it feels like yelling into an empty chamber, but I see the votes coming in, I know people are there. Trying to drive engagement without seeming like some marketing asshole at the same time.
The grief still hits me every once in a while, but the realization came that Reddit isn’t who they were 10 years ago. I’m not sad because I left Reddit, I’m sad because Reddit betrayed who they were when I signed up, and they killed a good thing themselves.
I was on Reddit the other day asking a tax question. Seemed like posting was less. Felt like a ghost town in some subreddits. Just my impression. Had not been there for maybe 6 months. Place seemed different.
I wonder if traffic and posting is really down?
Edit: Read the article. Says maybe stable maybe some growth. Says search driven traffic less fractionally. I know I see fewer search links to Reddit on DDG when I search.
Edit: Article was a bit vague about stock of new content. Are big contributors adding important new content? Not even sure how to measure. Reddit seems to like to focus on page views and time on site, maybe because financially that is all that matters? Maybe they do not really care about good content and content generation so much?
I visit daily for a few of the top stories on r/all and some subreddits like, r/Helldivers, but overall my interest in anything else on that site has soured. It’s not nearly as engaging as it was and the subs that get pushed are just terrible copies of what was great. It’s definitely died before but this is different.
I liked how the article tried to paint less fractional users from search as a positive. Too me that sounds like less relevance which is negative. Also interesting that Reddit no longer publishes that statistic. Makes a me wonder why.
Edit: Also in line with my experience. Feels like I see less search links and when I see them, I am less likely to click on them.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@beehaw.org
A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
I just hope that the IPO backfires, or that users suddenly realise how shitty that webpage is and they leave.
The lessons from Twitter are clear: most people will not leave bad social media without a better replacement. They’re attached to their history, and attached to their routine. It getting worse does not change that.
Mastodon didn’t scratch the Twitter users’ itches, and it doesn’t look like Lemmy will scratch Reddit users’. These aren[t the people that populated the Internet 20 years ago.
They’re the people who never would have touched it, because it was too technical, had too high a barrier of entry, and saw it as niche.
It’s time to stop focusing on whether Reddit succeeds or fails. They’re not going to fail. Instead, it’s time to make an internet of niches again, for ourselves, without the Twitter and Reddit users.
You don’t need a better replacement. People just need something that keeps them in the app longer, these sort of “dark patterns” that are often mentioned. The app can be total shit, as long as it manages to engage users. That’s why something like Lemmy or Mastodon is not succeeding with the general population because they explicitly have been made not to utilise such things.
By “better”, I don’t necessarily mean of higher quality. Those dark patterns are often features from the point of view of the average user. Without them, they can feel lost, and they spurned their platforms of choice until they had them.
@Kichae @Ignacio it won’t fail - yet. Reddit is like Facebook 10 years ago. The people on it are mostly older and have built a community on it and don’t want to leave that. TikTok is where the new growth is. Younger crowds see the mess that is Reddit and Twitter and don’t even sign up.
I think it’s important to say that while history and routine are part of it, social networks are only as useful as they are populated. If your friends and people you follow are all on Twitter, you’re not going to jump to Mastodon. If the content creators start switching, people will likely follow… but they won’t switch unless their followers switch.
I switched to Mastodon when Twitter went to X, and cold Turkey dropped to Lemmy from Reddit when the API scandal hit and the only thing I miss is most of the reason I was in those platforms in the first place, the content creators.
I still go to Reddit for some communities that don’t have critical mass on Lemmy. Sure you can talk about programming or Linux here, but the more niche ones (like specific mods for specific games) are entirely absent.
But when I want to post something or create content, it goes here.
Yep. My dad uses Facebook, Reddit and Youtube now. I remember having conversations with him where he was confused about why anyone would ever want to use Facebook and what the point of Youtube is… it just wastes time. When I first exposed him to AMAs I thought he would be interested in, in like 2012, he was like “It’s really cool that you can talk to this person, but there’s so much noise and joking around… how are you supposed to follow it all?”
Now he posts on reddit for help with home improvement projects and watches youtube channels about classic cars and how to fix your garage door opener and talks about stuff he saw his other Boomer friends post on Facebook. He sends me unfunny Youtube videos of AI Deepfakes of Trump and Biden talking about how they pooped their diapers. It’s a weird role reversal, because now I’m like “I’ve left every single one of those enshittified platforms.” But it took him years to get on them. It would take him even longer to get off.
Yup, if anyone wants to “replace” these platforms, they need to make them very approachable to tech naive individuals. Most people have close to no technical skills, and nearly everyone on federated software seems to fail to recognize this.
Ultimately I am in agreement that we shouldn’t be trying to drop a replacement to these platforms directly in. We should be offering an alternative, something fundamentally different, because those platforms have failed to fulfill our desires and needs from social media on the internet.
deleted by creator
I feel bad for users over there, at least the long time users who know what it was. I’ll admit, when I moved over here I felt genuine remorse, guilt, and anger. I realized I was literally going through mourning, which sounds silly for a website, but those were communities I joined over a decade ago that I was walking away from.
People have asked me why I started a Taylor Swift community over here, and it’s really because of those nice, friendly communities over on Reddit that I had to walk away from. I know how hard it was to leave those ones, so maybe I can run a couple of the ones that I enjoyed there to help the next wave of folks so they know there are some of us here already who have gone through it.
Emotional, probably, but honestly just felt betrayed and angry with how they treated us long time users, the ones who were there at the very beginning. They chose some hussy ill dressed homewrecker IPO over us long term stable and loving users.
I relate to this a lot. I was on Reddit for over a decade, too, when I left after the third-party apps shut down. I loved a lot of the discussion over there (once I got away from some of the big subs and found smaller ones), and still kind of miss it. There really was a period of sadness when I left. I’m trying to be active over here to help these communities grow, but it’s hard to get back into it and be motivated sometimes.
Yeah, sometimes it feels like yelling into an empty chamber, but I see the votes coming in, I know people are there. Trying to drive engagement without seeming like some marketing asshole at the same time.
The grief still hits me every once in a while, but the realization came that Reddit isn’t who they were 10 years ago. I’m not sad because I left Reddit, I’m sad because Reddit betrayed who they were when I signed up, and they killed a good thing themselves.
I was on Reddit the other day asking a tax question. Seemed like posting was less. Felt like a ghost town in some subreddits. Just my impression. Had not been there for maybe 6 months. Place seemed different.
I wonder if traffic and posting is really down?
Edit: Read the article. Says maybe stable maybe some growth. Says search driven traffic less fractionally. I know I see fewer search links to Reddit on DDG when I search.
Edit: Article was a bit vague about stock of new content. Are big contributors adding important new content? Not even sure how to measure. Reddit seems to like to focus on page views and time on site, maybe because financially that is all that matters? Maybe they do not really care about good content and content generation so much?
I visit daily for a few of the top stories on r/all and some subreddits like, r/Helldivers, but overall my interest in anything else on that site has soured. It’s not nearly as engaging as it was and the subs that get pushed are just terrible copies of what was great. It’s definitely died before but this is different.
I liked how the article tried to paint less fractional users from search as a positive. Too me that sounds like less relevance which is negative. Also interesting that Reddit no longer publishes that statistic. Makes a me wonder why.
Edit: Also in line with my experience. Feels like I see less search links and when I see them, I am less likely to click on them.