I disagree with the meme but mostly because I think all programming language are fucking clowns at times. I Don’t think that you should use typeless languages for huge projects but I also think that for a little Js library, Js is fine.
Say what you want about it, but it will not go down without using everything in the vicinity as a weapon if ammo runs out. While others go down, they will be kamikazeing themselves to get the job done.
Ehhh, golang’s pretty down there for me too. Sure, you have types, but the way you “implement” an interface is the sussiest thing I’ve seen in most well-known programming languages. Not to mention all the foot guns (pointers for nullables is a common one, and oh, if you forgot that a function returns an error, and you called it for its effects, you’ve just built a possibly very silent bomb) you end up building into your programs. I use in prod, and I get scared.
I’m pretty new to it. The types and struct stuff are a bit hand-wavey, but I like how quickly I was able to ramp into it. I built a simple API with it in a few hours.
2 things I like about golang is just 1) the ease of getting someone to start work, and 2) goroutines. I have no complains about goroutines cause I’ve barely used it, and when I do it’s been fine. The first point though, I’d say the simplicity of the language is a double-edged sword — it’s easy to learn with little surface to cover, but it forces you to implement a lot of basic machinery you find in other languages by yourself, and so your codebase can get clunky to read really quickly, especially as your project grows.
Not trying to dissuade you from learning golang tho. I think it’s a good language to learn and use, especially for small simple programs, but it’s not the great language many try to say it is. It’s… fine. There are many reasons why it grinds my gears, but I’m still fine with using it and maintaining it for prod.
“Clunky” - this hit it on the head for me. When I was initially getting started, some of the setup and boilerplate felt awkward. It feels very barebones, which I can see the benefit if you’re not a fan of opinionated, but as a project grows, it seems like a dark corner that technical debt and spaghetti code would amass.
I use PHP as a back end language for an API. The front end is Vue. It’s fast as fuck, runs anywhere, doesn’t need tons of dependencies, and just does what I want it to.
The environment is all on-premise, so that does limit our options… but I’d still pick PHP.
I was gonna say, next to C++ you better don’t shame other languages for their errors. Otherwise I wish you some “fuck you: error in library used in library used in template of template:: some template object is not correct type of template obejct”-type bullshit.
IDK buddy, I don’t really care to write the same method for five different types (or read the 30 methods with different type signatures) when I can do it with one. I see the exact opposite of your statement, in my experience.
Type signatures help you to know what a function takes and returns. With dynamic typing, I have to read the entire code of the function just to know this (sometimes even this doesn’t tell me what will actually be returned due to duck typing).
More importantly, type signatures help the compiler verify the types.
Both of these get more and more important as the code size increases. I’d suggest you widen your horizon about static typing.
Extra steps that guarantee you don’t accidentally treat an integer as if it were a string or an array and get a runtime exception.
With generics, the compiler can prove that the thing you’re passing to that function is actually something the function can use.
Really what you’re doing if you’re honest, is doing the compiler’s work: hmm inside this function I access this field on this parameter. Can I pass an argument of such and such type here? Lemme check if it has that field. Forgot to check? Or were mistaken? Runtime error! If you’re lucky, you caught it before production.
Not to mention that types communicate intent. It’s no fun trying to figure out how to use a library that has bad/missing documentation. But it’s a hell of a lot easier if you don’t need to guess what type of arguments its functions can handle.
“I dOnt lIkE tYpEsCrIpT. iT aDdS uNnEcCeSsArY cOmPlExItY.”
Well I don’t like the PTSD I have from trying to refactor your God awful native JavaScript codebase. It has enough magic strings to summon the Dark Lord himself.
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This is some great content, but where would vbscript and .wsf files sit (do they even get to join the team?)
Well, who do you think they’re hiding from?
Until today I thought being a typist just meant you could press keys quickly
I disagree with the meme but mostly because I think all programming language are fucking clowns at times. I Don’t think that you should use typeless languages for huge projects but I also think that for a little Js library, Js is fine.
Say what you want about it, but it will not go down without using everything in the vicinity as a weapon if ammo runs out. While others go down, they will be kamikazeing themselves to get the job done.
??
I write JS/TS daily and I agree with this lol.
I’ve offset it with Golang lately.
Go has the pitfalls you’d expect from an abused configuration language, not from a modern statically typed language.
Ehhh, golang’s pretty down there for me too. Sure, you have types, but the way you “implement” an interface is the sussiest thing I’ve seen in most well-known programming languages. Not to mention all the foot guns (pointers for nullables is a common one, and oh, if you forgot that a function returns an error, and you called it for its effects, you’ve just built a possibly very silent bomb) you end up building into your programs. I use in prod, and I get scared.
I’m pretty new to it. The types and struct stuff are a bit hand-wavey, but I like how quickly I was able to ramp into it. I built a simple API with it in a few hours.
2 things I like about golang is just 1) the ease of getting someone to start work, and 2) goroutines. I have no complains about goroutines cause I’ve barely used it, and when I do it’s been fine. The first point though, I’d say the simplicity of the language is a double-edged sword — it’s easy to learn with little surface to cover, but it forces you to implement a lot of basic machinery you find in other languages by yourself, and so your codebase can get clunky to read really quickly, especially as your project grows.
Not trying to dissuade you from learning golang tho. I think it’s a good language to learn and use, especially for small simple programs, but it’s not the great language many try to say it is. It’s… fine. There are many reasons why it grinds my gears, but I’m still fine with using it and maintaining it for prod.
“Clunky” - this hit it on the head for me. When I was initially getting started, some of the setup and boilerplate felt awkward. It feels very barebones, which I can see the benefit if you’re not a fan of opinionated, but as a project grows, it seems like a dark corner that technical debt and spaghetti code would amass.
lol is the web a joke to you? jk
That is, indeed, the case.
PHP enters the chat
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Neat, and how’s it run in the browser?
About as great as python or ruby or ASP or .NET or any other back end WEB language.
Then it’s not for what Javascript is for. It’s not in contention.
I don’t care how nice your favorite truck is if I’m going across a lake.
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<php?
Fatal error
I still use PHP in like 1/8 client projects - it’s fast as shit now ^^ lolol
Serious question: what’s the use case for using PHP in greenfield projects? Is the client dictating the use of PHP or your own choice?
I use PHP as a back end language for an API. The front end is Vue. It’s fast as fuck, runs anywhere, doesn’t need tons of dependencies, and just does what I want it to.
The environment is all on-premise, so that does limit our options… but I’d still pick PHP.
Python has to be another clown with their error messages
Most python error messages are pretty straightforward so I legitimately don’t know what you’re talking about
I was gonna say, next to C++ you better don’t shame other languages for their errors. Otherwise I wish you some “fuck you: error in library used in library used in template of template:: some template object is not correct type of template obejct”-type bullshit.
Which part in particular? They were improved in 3.10 and 3.11
Honestly, fuck dynamic typing in general. That shit saves you a few seconds and costs you a few hours.
IDK buddy, I don’t really care to write the same method for five different types (or read the 30 methods with different type signatures) when I can do it with one. I see the exact opposite of your statement, in my experience.
Type signatures help you to know what a function takes and returns. With dynamic typing, I have to read the entire code of the function just to know this (sometimes even this doesn’t tell me what will actually be returned due to duck typing).
More importantly, type signatures help the compiler verify the types.
Both of these get more and more important as the code size increases. I’d suggest you widen your horizon about static typing.
I take it your only experience with statically typed languages is with C. It’s a big world out there!
That’s what generics are for.
So… dynamic typing with extra steps 😂
Extra steps that guarantee you don’t accidentally treat an integer as if it were a string or an array and get a runtime exception.
With generics, the compiler can prove that the thing you’re passing to that function is actually something the function can use.
Really what you’re doing if you’re honest, is doing the compiler’s work: hmm inside this function I access this field on this parameter. Can I pass an argument of such and such type here? Lemme check if it has that field. Forgot to check? Or were mistaken? Runtime error! If you’re lucky, you caught it before production.
Not to mention that types communicate intent. It’s no fun trying to figure out how to use a library that has bad/missing documentation. But it’s a hell of a lot easier if you don’t need to guess what type of arguments its functions can handle.
I started as a python enjoyer. 6 years later I can confidently say fuck dynamic typing, fuck mutable defaults.
Also fuck python and js (used both for work) TS is better but we all know it’s not by much
TS is “better” but often I feel like just configuring typescript takes up a significant amount of the time you save by using it.
Yeah, i feel the same but it is at least configurable and not terrible configurable like python
It gets easier the more you do it but ts needed a default official config to start things up with.
Hahaha exactly! I feel like every time I start a new TS project, I start by copying the tsconfig from an existing one
This. I actually have template which I’m using for all my small projects.
Right tool for the job.
If I just quickly want to whip up a small script, I actually want to save a few seconds.
When I’m doing something larger in scope, static typing all the way.
That’s 100% spot on. Those hours lost never come if the whole project is done in 30 minutes.
Python is by far the clown, especially against JS
“I dOnt lIkE tYpEsCrIpT. iT aDdS uNnEcCeSsArY cOmPlExItY.”
Well I don’t like the PTSD I have from trying to refactor your God awful native JavaScript codebase. It has enough magic strings to summon the Dark Lord himself.
Totally man. Let me just cast this date to a date so I can be sure its a date.
“you don’t need types, just use unit tests!”
My fucking eye twitched involuntarily as I read your comment.
I’ve literally seen people make this argument only a few years ago.
Boring