Air Canada has been ordered to compensate a B.C. man because its chatbot gave him inaccurate information.
Jake Moffatt was booking a flight to Toronto and asked the bot about the airline’s bereavement rates – reduced fares provided in the event someone needs to travel due to the death of an immediate family member.
Moffatt said he was told that these fares could be claimed retroactively by completing a refund application within 90 days of the date the ticket was issued, and submitted a screenshot of his conversation with the bot as evidence supporting this claim.
The airline refused the refund because it said its policy was that bereavement fare could not, in fact, be claimed retroactively.
Air Canada argued that it could not be held liable for information provided by the bot.
If they get the precedent they are not responsible for what the AI chat bot says, then this goes for any chat box on any site and they all become worthless. Any chat bot gets a disclaimer basically saying “this thing is a dirty lier and nothing it says matters.” People will start to call human customer service to confirm what the chat bot said and the savings in employee costs are gone.
It’s not a long term strategy. The person who made this decision is thinking about their quarterly or yearly bonus. By the time the problems hit, they’ve long since cashed out.
CS will be a multi modal chatbot too, just with a voice. I don’t think they want any human support at all. To a business, the only reason overhead exists is to cut it, and support has always been overhead.
And they’ll cancel a flight on the slightest pretext. I’ve gone back to the hotel and waited 3 days while I watch from the room window flight after flight of other carriers taking off.
I’m curious to know more about your experiences. At home we try to only travel air canada and never had any issues. I’ve had so many terrible experiences with American, United and such that if I can choose air canada, I’ll always do it.
It’s your fucking system. You’re liable for what it says.
I got a bereavement care when my father died the night before my flight to see him. The phone agent did this without my asking for it. Humans good, chatbots bad.
They’re not fighting for the $800. They’re fighting for the right to continue to use their shitty chatbot to reduce their support staff costs while not being liable for any bullshit it tells people.
There will be cases like this in every jurisdiction.
You are pretty optimistic they would pay $100k for this job. It is probs far less, which makes this even worse, they are not saving that much money really.
It costs your employer about 30% more to employ you than what you earn (approximately) - so hiring someone for 75k will usually cost a company somewhere around 100k.
I didn’t say they would pay $100k. I said it would cost probably $100k including benefits - a full time employee cost isn’t just their salary or hourly wage. There’s lots of overhead cost to employ a person at a large company. Also keep in mind this is for a Canadian, so don’t be thinking in USD. In CAD in the Toronto area (for example), it isn’t unreasonable to think even a first line phone based customer service agent salary would be between $65-70k, then the employee expenses on top of that.
Well, you’re just wrong about that. I worked for a company that employed front of the line customer service in Toronto that paid $80k…in 2017! I’m not saying Air Canada does (I have no idea what AC wages are), but if their agents are part of a union, it’s definitely possible.
But my point stands - if anyone thinks these companies are going to ‘do the right thing’ and hire real people when these AI chatbots exist and are so cheap, it’s just not going to happen.
Confirmed. As someone who has led customer operations at large companies, the scale of chatbots to address a userbase is absurd. Companies are more than willing to take the hit to their reputation and customer goodwill in exchange for not needing to hire as much staff, train them, manage their schedules or deal with benefits and performance reviews. Cutting all that cost is an instaboner to execs and a nightmare to support managers who actually care about quality.
The amount of $700 judgements that Air Canada would need to be hit with to make replacing humans with chatbots a losing proposition is too high. It’ll never happen.
Sadly, in my decade of experience, I’ve yet to see any bots able to reliably handle much beyond ‘where’s my order?’.
I wonder how anyone in their right mind would propose the defense “we can’t be held liable for what the chatbot we purposefully put on our website said”. Did Air Canada’s lawyers truly think this would fly?
If you don’t want to be held to AI hallucinations, don’t put an AI chatbot on your website, seems easy enough.
This article does not actually mention the chatbot being AI. As chatbots have been around for many years, it is possible this is just a normal non-‘AI’ chatbot that someone programmed that information with (potentially old information that had long since changed, but no one has updated).
Either way, they are liable for what it tells customers. If it is AI, well… no company should be using AI to make legally binding statements, or advertisements to customers (without human review).
At the moment, companies deploying an AI, should be doing so with AI as the product, not integrated into selling non-AI related products, or services.
You know what, you’re completely right. Thanks for pointing that out, my brain just auto-completed that detail because of how prevalent “AI” is in the news these days.
Honestly though, if it’s a more traditional chatbot that they had to program themselves, it’s all the more embarrassing for Air Canada that they were trying to weasel themselves out of this.
My organization won’t even allow auto translation widgets on our site. Instead, we refer people to using web translation services on their own, with clear language that says we’re not liable for third party mistranslations. (In multiple languages, by a company that has signed an indemnity agreement with us if their translation becomes an issue.)
It’s a bit heavy-handed, but the lawyers hold more sway than the communications folks, and I don’t disagree with the approach – you don’t want users misunderstanding what your site says, and being able to blame you for it.
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Lol. Of course they’d say that. Perhaps hire people? Or would they also argue they couldn’t be held liable for their mistakes and misinformation?
If they get the precedent they are not responsible for what the AI chat bot says, then this goes for any chat box on any site and they all become worthless. Any chat bot gets a disclaimer basically saying “this thing is a dirty lier and nothing it says matters.” People will start to call human customer service to confirm what the chat bot said and the savings in employee costs are gone.
Seems a bad long term strategy.
It’s not a long term strategy. The person who made this decision is thinking about their quarterly or yearly bonus. By the time the problems hit, they’ve long since cashed out.
Way, way fewer people will call CS than will just ignore the warning.
Once we become acclimated to things like this, we stop complaining, and let the greedy fuckers win.
CS will be a multi modal chatbot too, just with a voice. I don’t think they want any human support at all. To a business, the only reason overhead exists is to cut it, and support has always been overhead.
They’re trying to cheap out on real human support personnel - Chat bots are clearly not a suitable replacement.
Fuck’em.
Worst airline ever. You realize that when you try any other.
And they’ll cancel a flight on the slightest pretext. I’ve gone back to the hotel and waited 3 days while I watch from the room window flight after flight of other carriers taking off.
I’m curious to know more about your experiences. At home we try to only travel air canada and never had any issues. I’ve had so many terrible experiences with American, United and such that if I can choose air canada, I’ll always do it.
It’s your fucking system. You’re liable for what it says.
I got a bereavement care when my father died the night before my flight to see him. The phone agent did this without my asking for it. Humans good, chatbots bad.
Oh man, moments like this when my faith in humanity is restored. I am sorry for your loss
I got offered a bereavement fare that was higher than the Google flights posted fare, and limited to Mon-Thurs flights.
the (probably legally required) system we set up just straight up lied, not our fault.
Are chatbots really legally required?
I am assuming the customer should legally have a way to contact a company.
Companies try to make this obligation cost less and less by using automation and self service.
Source : worked on the customer service platform for a fortune 500 company.
Yeah I’m also confused as to what they mean by this.
https://lemmy.world/comment/7546839
I love that now the precedent exists and companies will think twice before adding chatbots like these.
It’s amazing that a 7 billion dollar company goes to court to fight someone for $800. Aside from obviously being in the wrong.
They’re not fighting for the $800. They’re fighting for the right to continue to use their shitty chatbot to reduce their support staff costs while not being liable for any bullshit it tells people.
There will be cases like this in every jurisdiction.
Exactly.
If the court hand found any other way, then any time the chatbot makes a mistake, they just wash their hands of it and let the consumer takes the hit.
This means they are responsible for what the chatbot says, and is at least moderately sane.
It would have been just a matter of time the chatbot started making “mistakes” that financially benefitted the company more and more.
Does this decision carry any precedent? It was a tribunal, not a court.
Nothing to do with the money and everything to do with the precedent. Glad it didn’t work out for them.
just hire a damn employee
Chatbot = basically free
Yearly employee = probably about $100k incl benefits
Should they hire a person? Absolutely. Will they if they can get away with it? Aww hell naw.
Yeah, I want to see who will buy the garbage they are selling when no one has money.
Doesn’t matter to their shareholders. They’ll have already made their money.
You are pretty optimistic they would pay $100k for this job. It is probs far less, which makes this even worse, they are not saving that much money really.
It costs your employer about 30% more to employ you than what you earn (approximately) - so hiring someone for 75k will usually cost a company somewhere around 100k.
I didn’t say they would pay $100k. I said it would cost probably $100k including benefits - a full time employee cost isn’t just their salary or hourly wage. There’s lots of overhead cost to employ a person at a large company. Also keep in mind this is for a Canadian, so don’t be thinking in USD. In CAD in the Toronto area (for example), it isn’t unreasonable to think even a first line phone based customer service agent salary would be between $65-70k, then the employee expenses on top of that.
LOL customer service agents do NOT get paid $65-70k
Well, you’re just wrong about that. I worked for a company that employed front of the line customer service in Toronto that paid $80k…in 2017! I’m not saying Air Canada does (I have no idea what AC wages are), but if their agents are part of a union, it’s definitely possible.
But my point stands - if anyone thinks these companies are going to ‘do the right thing’ and hire real people when these AI chatbots exist and are so cheap, it’s just not going to happen.
It’s probably half that, but a chatbot can serve thousands of users whereas an employee can manage a few at a time.
Confirmed. As someone who has led customer operations at large companies, the scale of chatbots to address a userbase is absurd. Companies are more than willing to take the hit to their reputation and customer goodwill in exchange for not needing to hire as much staff, train them, manage their schedules or deal with benefits and performance reviews. Cutting all that cost is an instaboner to execs and a nightmare to support managers who actually care about quality.
The amount of $700 judgements that Air Canada would need to be hit with to make replacing humans with chatbots a losing proposition is too high. It’ll never happen.
Sadly, in my decade of experience, I’ve yet to see any bots able to reliably handle much beyond ‘where’s my order?’.
Air Canada probably spent more trying to fight this claim rather than just issuing payment when the chatbot logs were sent in
I am completely certain that’s the case. For them, this is more about precedent.
Surely they’re scared of more people realizing that saving these chats is important. How else will they get away with scummy practices?
I wonder how anyone in their right mind would propose the defense “we can’t be held liable for what the chatbot we purposefully put on our website said”. Did Air Canada’s lawyers truly think this would fly?
If you don’t want to be held to AI hallucinations, don’t put an AI chatbot on your website, seems easy enough.
Probably not, but they’re paid to try their best.
This article does not actually mention the chatbot being AI. As chatbots have been around for many years, it is possible this is just a normal non-‘AI’ chatbot that someone programmed that information with (potentially old information that had long since changed, but no one has updated).
Either way, they are liable for what it tells customers. If it is AI, well… no company should be using AI to make legally binding statements, or advertisements to customers (without human review).
At the moment, companies deploying an AI, should be doing so with AI as the product, not integrated into selling non-AI related products, or services.
You know what, you’re completely right. Thanks for pointing that out, my brain just auto-completed that detail because of how prevalent “AI” is in the news these days.
Honestly though, if it’s a more traditional chatbot that they had to program themselves, it’s all the more embarrassing for Air Canada that they were trying to weasel themselves out of this.
My organization won’t even allow auto translation widgets on our site. Instead, we refer people to using web translation services on their own, with clear language that says we’re not liable for third party mistranslations. (In multiple languages, by a company that has signed an indemnity agreement with us if their translation becomes an issue.)
It’s a bit heavy-handed, but the lawyers hold more sway than the communications folks, and I don’t disagree with the approach – you don’t want users misunderstanding what your site says, and being able to blame you for it.
Lol… “Think this would fly” I see what you did there.