The president’s shedding key constituencies. If morality won’t move him to end his support of this war, will self-interest?
On the issue of Gaza, Biden is dramatically out of touch with the voters he needs to win re-election. If he will not be moved by morality to stop his support of this war, he should be moved by vulgar self-interest. Gaza is not a distant foreign conflict: it is an urgent moral emergency for large swaths of voters. Biden will lose those voters – and may indeed lose the election – if he does not cease his support of these atrocities.
Biden has that rare opportunity in politics: to help the country, and himself, by doing the right thing. But he must do so now. Both the Palestinian people and his own election prospects are running out of time.
Doubt. Eventually people will realize that for as bad as Biden is with regards to Gaza, he’s doing a lot right domestically, and the other guy would be much, much, MUCH worse
Until we get rid of FPTP voting nationally, 3rd parties cannot win and can only spoil. The best we can hope for is a third party is popular enough that they displace another party. Which would be a years to decades long change as local, state and national representatives get replaced slowly.
More likely what would happen is what the GOP did to the 2 contenders: the Tea Party and Insurrection Party. The GOP just absorbed and changed to meet them.
You have to change the FPTP system first. It’s mathematically impossible to have a stable third-party system without changing the mechanics of how it works.
How do you change that system? Are there any particular groups you can think of who are actively working against those changes?
You’re not suggesting we vote for people who are opposed to and working against non-FPTP systems, as a vehicle to enact a non-FPTP system, right? Cause that would be pretty silly. :P
The way voters protest this sort of issue doesn’t follow logic or reason. People will happily not vote in protest, even if it means somebody far worse will win because of their actions. Cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I think the news needs to shame these kind of voters, instead of pushing this narrative that it’s Biden’s fault. Biden’s views are his own, and yeah, the news should try to highlight and change them. But, voter patterns of using “uncontested” or third-party candidates to sabotage the main electees is actively destroying Democrats’ chances of winning elections.
instead of pushing this narrative that it’s Biden’s fault
But… it is his fault? His job is to represent his constituents, which he’s not doing. He’s literally refusing to do his job as an elected representative. That you think it’s the electorate’s job to align with a President (and thus, a failing on their part not to) is antithetical to Democracy.
Here’s an interesting hypothetical for you:
How close would Biden need to be to Trump, before you wouldn’t vote for him? What issues would he need to change his stance on? I’m not saying he’s close, I’m interested to know which of your personal values are red-lines?
If the answer is, “nothing, so long as he is at all better than Trump”, then we’re never going to see eye-to-eye, because to me at that point your rhetoric is incapable of combating our current slide towards fascism (just as I believe Biden is). If there are red-lines for you, then ask yourself why your personal red-lines are more important or valid than the people who you’re shaming for saying he’s crossed theirs.
Sadly, I suspect that the answer for many Democrats is the same as it is for Republicans; they’ll only stand up to the party once they are personally harmed by the party’s policies.
100% agree these people need to be shamed. And it needs to happen as often as it can’t until it’s understood what is at stake.
Action isn’t initiated by the lack of action. The mere thought that by doing nothing- something will happen is so incredibly ignorant… I can barely hold on to the concept of it let along try and sympathize with those that subscribe to it.
I’m sorry, your take is that we need to shame people for …standing against a genocide? for deciding that supporting the deaths of an entire culture of people is the line too far for their conscience to support? You think that deserves to be attacked and shamed?
The U.S. has no obligation to participate in genocide, and can start withholding aid at any time. If Democrat leadership has decided it’s more important to exterminate Palestine than prevent a Trump election, that’s going to remain on the Democrats.
Biden is anti Hamas, trump is anti Palestine there is a huge fucking difference. Biden is still trying to get aid to the people of Gaza, trump will not and will likely sent troops to assist in the genocide.
🤖 I’m a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles:
Click here to see the summary
The Biden campaign has long been shrugging at the president’s fading polls, turning down opportunities to put him in front of voters, and generally doing their best to portray an air of confident nonchalance.
A new dataset released by the New York Times on 13 May found that Biden was trailing in five key swing states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania – and suffering from disillusionment among young voters as well as Black and Latino ones.
“Drawing broad conclusions about the race based on results from one poll is a mistake,” Geoff Garin, a pollster for the Biden campaign, told the New York Times.
If that figure cannot shake you into moral recognition, consider that many of those children have endured their amputations without anesthesia, since medicine – like food – has largely been prohibited from being delivered to Gaza by Israeli authorities.
And though his White House repeatedly leaks that he is “privately” dismayed by Israel’s conduct of the war, he has done little to stop the flow of US money and guns that support it.
But these lesser-of-two-evils argument do not lessen the tax on the conscience that many anti-war Americans will feel when they consider whether to vote for Biden in spite of his support for the genocide in Gaza.
Anyone not voting for Biden because of Gaza is a fucking idiot. Trump will be 10x worse for Palestinians. Remember who moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. That was designed as a provocation.
Anyone not voting for Biden because of Gaza is a fucking idiot.
The democracts insist on maintaining this position despite the mountain of evidence that it’s driving down turn out in their base, and does not represent the wishes of the electorate.
Why is it that voters have to swallow genocide, and not that democrats have to stop perpetuating electorally unpopular genocide?
Of course trump will be worse and i’ll be holding my nose and voting for biden but it makes no sense to blame voters for the inevitable and foreseeable consequences of the imperial cowardice of the democratic party.
Genocide is going to continue either way, we can either deal with the guy asking for a cease fire and who built a pier to get around Israel or vote for the guy that will send our troops to participate.
so you are pro trump and the what he will do to Palestine, got it. Third part will never be elected to the office of president until there is third party support in all other levels and branches of the government. This is by design of how our elections work. You get 2 choices, if you vote for a third option you are in fact voting for your least favorite option. I am saying this as someone who was a 3rd party voter up until 2016 and voted for that bitch Jill Stein who turned out to be a russian shill.
The most brain dead reply I’ve read today. Not sure why this math is hard to understand for people but if someone votes 3rd party trump does not get an additional vote, so no it’s not the same as supporting trump.
If Biden wants to earn their vote then maybe he should not fund and supply a genocide then?
If the only credible path you get to choose is 30 something thousand civilian casualties, or complete annihilation of those civilians, not choosing the prevention of complete annihilation places a moral fault on you.
That really only applies if your vote can change the election which isn’t going to happen outside of the maybe 4 swing states.
With your same logic if your voting for Biden in one of the states he’s guaranteed to win or lose then your morally supporting a genocide for no actual change.
The SJWs that refuse to vote every election year because of single issue nonsense are already counted out with regards to polling and forecasts as I understand.
This is why their votes actually can count. Because any vote from them will help tip the balance in favor of democracy over dictatorship-
but should they all make good on their threats to pout and stay home-
Dismiss the ‘sjws’ sure, but it’s literally impossible for democrats to win the presidency unless black voters are enthusiastic about the candidate. Biden’s Gaza stance hurts him with black voters.
I honestly don’t think so. Again, single-issue non-voters are already not counted in the demographics- as I understand. I could be wrong, but I think this has always been a thing. This is why most polls aren’t accurate- because they don’t account for this. The remaining numbers are a result of who is expected to vote.
This doesn’t mean that the gEnOciDe jOe kids can’t help America from falling into absolute chaos, and Palestine from becoming a golf course…
But it’s already assumed they won’t. Again, they’re part of status quo and they don’t even realize it.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !politics@beehaw.org
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it’s a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
Where possible, post the original source of information.
If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Doubt. Eventually people will realize that for as bad as Biden is with regards to Gaza, he’s doing a lot right domestically, and the other guy would be much, much, MUCH worse
Personally, I really, really, really wish we had a viable third party candidate. I don’t want either of these fucks in office.
Until we get rid of FPTP voting nationally, 3rd parties cannot win and can only spoil. The best we can hope for is a third party is popular enough that they displace another party. Which would be a years to decades long change as local, state and national representatives get replaced slowly.
More likely what would happen is what the GOP did to the 2 contenders: the Tea Party and Insurrection Party. The GOP just absorbed and changed to meet them.
You have to change the FPTP system first. It’s mathematically impossible to have a stable third-party system without changing the mechanics of how it works.
How do you change that system? Are there any particular groups you can think of who are actively working against those changes?
You’re not suggesting we vote for people who are opposed to and working against non-FPTP systems, as a vehicle to enact a non-FPTP system, right? Cause that would be pretty silly. :P
We should just tell him we will vote for him no matter what.
That’s surely how you influence the geriatric corporate owned politicians who allegedly “represent” us.
The way voters protest this sort of issue doesn’t follow logic or reason. People will happily not vote in protest, even if it means somebody far worse will win because of their actions. Cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I think the news needs to shame these kind of voters, instead of pushing this narrative that it’s Biden’s fault. Biden’s views are his own, and yeah, the news should try to highlight and change them. But, voter patterns of using “uncontested” or third-party candidates to sabotage the main electees is actively destroying Democrats’ chances of winning elections.
But… it is his fault? His job is to represent his constituents, which he’s not doing. He’s literally refusing to do his job as an elected representative. That you think it’s the electorate’s job to align with a President (and thus, a failing on their part not to) is antithetical to Democracy.
Here’s an interesting hypothetical for you:
How close would Biden need to be to Trump, before you wouldn’t vote for him? What issues would he need to change his stance on? I’m not saying he’s close, I’m interested to know which of your personal values are red-lines?
If the answer is, “nothing, so long as he is at all better than Trump”, then we’re never going to see eye-to-eye, because to me at that point your rhetoric is incapable of combating our current slide towards fascism (just as I believe Biden is). If there are red-lines for you, then ask yourself why your personal red-lines are more important or valid than the people who you’re shaming for saying he’s crossed theirs.
Sadly, I suspect that the answer for many Democrats is the same as it is for Republicans; they’ll only stand up to the party once they are personally harmed by the party’s policies.
100% agree these people need to be shamed. And it needs to happen as often as it can’t until it’s understood what is at stake.
Action isn’t initiated by the lack of action. The mere thought that by doing nothing- something will happen is so incredibly ignorant… I can barely hold on to the concept of it let along try and sympathize with those that subscribe to it.
I’m sorry, your take is that we need to shame people for …standing against a genocide? for deciding that supporting the deaths of an entire culture of people is the line too far for their conscience to support? You think that deserves to be attacked and shamed?
The U.S. has no obligation to participate in genocide, and can start withholding aid at any time. If Democrat leadership has decided it’s more important to exterminate Palestine than prevent a Trump election, that’s going to remain on the Democrats.
Holding democracy ransom because one feels the need to virtue signal about something they more than likely didn’t care about a year ago?
Yeah. Shame.
What genocide was occurring one year ago?
Allowing Trump to win by not voting is not “standing against genocide”. It’s virtue signaling which will harm the very people you aim to protect.
deleted by creator
Biden is anti Hamas, trump is anti Palestine there is a huge fucking difference. Biden is still trying to get aid to the people of Gaza, trump will not and will likely sent troops to assist in the genocide.
Funny, Biden’s bombs have been killing Palestinian babies quite efficiently.
Locking comments, this has gone off the rails and devolved into hurling insults
🤖 I’m a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles:
Click here to see the summary
The Biden campaign has long been shrugging at the president’s fading polls, turning down opportunities to put him in front of voters, and generally doing their best to portray an air of confident nonchalance.
A new dataset released by the New York Times on 13 May found that Biden was trailing in five key swing states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania – and suffering from disillusionment among young voters as well as Black and Latino ones.
“Drawing broad conclusions about the race based on results from one poll is a mistake,” Geoff Garin, a pollster for the Biden campaign, told the New York Times.
If that figure cannot shake you into moral recognition, consider that many of those children have endured their amputations without anesthesia, since medicine – like food – has largely been prohibited from being delivered to Gaza by Israeli authorities.
And though his White House repeatedly leaks that he is “privately” dismayed by Israel’s conduct of the war, he has done little to stop the flow of US money and guns that support it.
But these lesser-of-two-evils argument do not lessen the tax on the conscience that many anti-war Americans will feel when they consider whether to vote for Biden in spite of his support for the genocide in Gaza.
Saved 82% of original text.
Anyone not voting for Biden because of Gaza is a fucking idiot. Trump will be 10x worse for Palestinians. Remember who moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. That was designed as a provocation.
removed by mod
There is no shortage of idiots. There never has been.
The democracts insist on maintaining this position despite the mountain of evidence that it’s driving down turn out in their base, and does not represent the wishes of the electorate.
Why is it that voters have to swallow genocide, and not that democrats have to stop perpetuating electorally unpopular genocide?
Of course trump will be worse and i’ll be holding my nose and voting for biden but it makes no sense to blame voters for the inevitable and foreseeable consequences of the imperial cowardice of the democratic party.
Genocide is going to continue either way, we can either deal with the guy asking for a cease fire and who built a pier to get around Israel or vote for the guy that will send our troops to participate.
Being angry at voters and calling them idiots over choices the democratic party made doesn’t help defeat trump.
deleted by creator
so you are pro trump and the what he will do to Palestine, got it. Third part will never be elected to the office of president until there is third party support in all other levels and branches of the government. This is by design of how our elections work. You get 2 choices, if you vote for a third option you are in fact voting for your least favorite option. I am saying this as someone who was a 3rd party voter up until 2016 and voted for that bitch Jill Stein who turned out to be a russian shill.
The most brain dead reply I’ve read today. Not sure why this math is hard to understand for people but if someone votes 3rd party trump does not get an additional vote, so no it’s not the same as supporting trump.
If Biden wants to earn their vote then maybe he should not fund and supply a genocide then?
If the only credible path you get to choose is 30 something thousand civilian casualties, or complete annihilation of those civilians, not choosing the prevention of complete annihilation places a moral fault on you.
That really only applies if your vote can change the election which isn’t going to happen outside of the maybe 4 swing states.
With your same logic if your voting for Biden in one of the states he’s guaranteed to win or lose then your morally supporting a genocide for no actual change.
If Mango Mussolini wins, you can kiss the US Constitution good-bye.
It’s already a joke. Sorry to break it to you.
The SJWs that refuse to vote every election year because of single issue nonsense are already counted out with regards to polling and forecasts as I understand.
This is why their votes actually can count. Because any vote from them will help tip the balance in favor of democracy over dictatorship-
but should they all make good on their threats to pout and stay home-
It’s just going to be status quo.
Dismiss the ‘sjws’ sure, but it’s literally impossible for democrats to win the presidency unless black voters are enthusiastic about the candidate. Biden’s Gaza stance hurts him with black voters.
I honestly don’t think so. Again, single-issue non-voters are already not counted in the demographics- as I understand. I could be wrong, but I think this has always been a thing. This is why most polls aren’t accurate- because they don’t account for this. The remaining numbers are a result of who is expected to vote.
This doesn’t mean that the gEnOciDe jOe kids can’t help America from falling into absolute chaos, and Palestine from becoming a golf course…
But it’s already assumed they won’t. Again, they’re part of status quo and they don’t even realize it.