I think it’s cruel to wish ill fate on a fellow Canadian. Please consider that no province in this country, from east to west, is a monoculture, politically speaking. I say this as an Albertan.
Oh this isn’t ill will. It’s good for them. Some lessons are hard. Hopefully Trump will give them some self-realization that they are not American but Trump’s enemies.
I understand the sentiment people might have towards the western provinces, but i personally don’t think its nice to paint the whole group with a broad stroke. I know good people in alberta.
Which provinces do you think would not get hurt by this, or even not as much? BC is the only one that might get away okay that I can think of, and I’m not even sure about that.
Trust me, I know EVERYONE will get hurt by a trade war because each province trade with the US more than with each other. But one in particular will be brought to its knees.
Oil can, at some additional price, be redirected, though. A specific part for an American automobile, on the other hand…
Then again, Ontario is just as conservative lately, and has always been more American, so if it’s revenge against the right you’re after maybe that works.
No. Oil and gas are very hard to ship. Canadian oil is of heavy type which most of the world doesn’t use. Gas needs LNG terminals and we simply haven’t built. EU has been urging Canada to build some in Quebec and Maritimes so they can reduce dependence on Russia. Most of the pipelines go to the US south for refining - in Louisiana and Texas. Canadian producers have no choice but to sell to them, at whatever they want to pay. That’s why Alberta was bitching and moaning about building the pipeline to BC so that they can get a better price for their heavy oil elsewhere and Trudeau spent billions to appease them but that pipeline’s been in limbo.
Tank trucks exist, they’re just more expensive, which is why pipelines have been on the agenda. We also have upgraders that make heavy oil light - I’ve seen some desulfering plants in person (yes, I’m in this picture, if only geographically). It’s a distillation away from being petrol (and heavy/heating oil and asphalt), and the main cost of shipping is petrol, so the economic case is really just driven by the need for it at the other end.
Meanwhile, in Ontario a part crosses the border multiple times on it’s way to being generally saleable as a car, and would rack up 25% every time as the policy is currently proposed. You’re right, Alberta will be in the shitter economically, but we’re not the most vulnerable, let alone the most vulnerable by far.
On the one hand this is threatening and scary. On the other hand, this is Trump’s way of declaring opening position on a new trade agreement. He’s scrapping the old one he made.
Yeah, the next test is how he responds to all the Americans begging him for a carve-out at the very least. He could tell them to pound sand, or completely reverse course. Both seem about as likely.
On the one hand, big investors have ears in Washington I don’t. On the other, they’re the exact kind of educated, well-to-do people who suddenly have no imagination when it comes to history happening again.
call me a conspiracy theorist however much you want. I still believe that he and his friends such as elon musk will purposefully crash the american economy to be able to purchase stocks at a lower price
The news also prompted a flurry of late-evening phone calls: between Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Trump, and between Trudeau and several provincial premiers, in an effort to defuse the danger to Canada’s economy.
“It was a good discussion and they will stay in touch,” a Canadian official said of the Trudeau-Trump call. The prime minister also spoke with the premiers of Ontario and Quebec.
I wish the other problems facing citizens of Canada were treated with this same kind of urgency from the federal government.
I’m not sure I understand your point. I’m talking about things like housing and affordability, which affect people across the country. These things could be handled more proactively on the federal level, and with coordination between GoC and the provinces. A $250 cheque and a gst holiday in advance of an election is bread and circuses. There are real issues that the nation is far behind on. The current government has done a bad job with these. They’ve lacked the ability or will to even identify housing and affordability as matters for intervention.
Sorry, I just can’t agree with anyone who thinks the current federal government has done all they could do to address these issues. The whole notion of “that’s not the job of the federal government”, it’s mealymouthed, and I don’t think it’s an acceptable position.
I’m talking about things like housing and affordability, which affect people across the country.
Housing is not the responsibility of the federal government. Any support they offer would need to be handled by Provincial leadership and municipalities.
As for “affordability”… that’s a very broad term. Are you referring to anything in particular?
The issue with blaming the feds, is that the feds can only do as much as the other governments (provincial and municipal) are willing to do.
In Ontario, for example, we have a crisis in education, healthcare, public safety, poverty, and crime.
These are issues that affect nearly all Ontarians on a daily basis, yet our government wants to waste money, and people want to blame Trudeau.
Our Provincial Government should be primarily focused on those concerns, but they’d rather misspend tens of millions to remove safe cycling infrastructure from the City of Toronto.
And you should also keep in mind that we have a minority Federal Government, so other parties, including those known to NOT CARE about people, are creating consistent roadblocks to progress in areas where the Feds have influence.
Housing is not the responsibility of the federal government. Any support they offer would need to be handled by Provincial leadership and municipalities.
Better tax breaks and incentives for first time buyers, higher restrictions on foreign and corporate ownership of single family homes. Etc. There are plenty of things a motivated federal government could do. This government isn’t motivated to address the housing issue.
As for “affordability”… that’s a very broad term. Are you referring to anything in particular?
Something over and above the toothless grocery code of conduct, which hasn’t even been agreed upon? Lower tax rates on earnings for people near and below a living wage, which itself is indexed to inflation.
And you should also keep in mind that we have a minority Federal Government
Not while the Liberals held a majority from 2015-2019, and not during the supply and confidence agreement from 2021-2024. It’s incorrect to argue that the Liberals have been hamstrung by a minority Parliament. They could have accomplished anything they wanted to.
We should demand more from our federal government. The Liberals have been bad, and I don’t understand the view that they’ve done well under the circumstances. They haven’t. I read your comment as apologism for the Liberals, and I genuinely don’t understand that position.
Better tax breaks and incentives for first time buyers
The feds doubled first time home buyer’s tax credit (2022), set up a “first home savings account” (2023), offers a home buyer’s plan, and some provinces offer their own rebates.
And as a reminder, even when the feds offer tax breaks to help people, Provinces bitch and complain, like with the recent announcement of a tax-break on certain consumer goods.
higher restrictions on foreign and corporate ownership of single family homes. Etc.
The feds announced an extension on bans on foreign ownership of Canadian housing.
Lower tax rates on earnings for people near and below a living wage, which itself is indexed to inflation.
There are a LOT of tax credits, rebates, and support for low-income individuals and families. Sure, we can always do more, but the feds have not stopped announcing new programs and extending existing ones.
Not while the Liberals held a majority from 2015-2019
Was affordability and housing prices a major problem back then? I don’t seem to recall any of the same ongoing reports of people struggling back then.
Things like minimum wage are set by Provinces and territories. Only federal employees are impacted by the federal government’s minimum wages.
We should demand more from our federal government. The Liberals have been bad, and I don’t understand the view that they’ve done well under the circumstances. They haven’t. I read your comment as apologism for the Liberals, and I genuinely don’t understand that position.
Yes, we should always demand more. No doubt.
But it seems like the things you’re asking for are already in place, and/or are the responsibility of the Provincial government.
Yes, this is what I’m saying. The federal government can do things to address these issues. I’m not a policymaker, I’m just some jackass sitting at a computer. A government with vision could make strides.
And to my initial point, a government that could build political bridges with the provinces would be even more effective.
I don’t disagree that a lot of the Liberal actions have been milquetoast… but they have at some point implemented the things you asked for, for what parts of housing that is in their purview:
They’ve done the things you were looking for (I don’t think perfectly at all, mind you), yet within the provinces, only the BCNDP govt. has taken any independent leadership on their part of addressing the housing crisis. Ford has only gotten in the way, and a handful of municipalities have taken action, such as in Edmonton. Yet, people at large and especially Premiers are all pointing the finger at Trudeau for problems instead of thinking how to help.
Isn’t that the whole point of a “Team Canada approach”? All the provinces have their own needs and abilities, but we need some sort of coordination to make sure we’re all aiming for the same goal. And while housing may not directly be their responsibility the feds should be there for the assist with whatever the provinces need but can’t do themselves.
And while housing may not directly be their responsibility the feds should be there for the assist with whatever the provinces need but can’t do themselves.
What I’ve observed is that the feds can give provinces all the money they like, but if the provinces are misspending or not spending those funds, you see no results.
This happened in Ontario during the pandemic. The Ford government underspent in healthcare while doctors and nurses begged for relief. It cost their lives, and the quality of our healthcare to drop significantly.
At the same time, this government has $48 million to remove bike lanes from Toronto, and apparently billions to build an underground tunnel for cars under the 401.
The feds can only do so much when provinces are incapable of producing effective leadership.
Bang on. They’re all culpable and doing nothing to address the underlying problem because they all know the solution bites the hand that feeds them (those with money).
As a good example we all witnessed over the last year + constant initiatives by all governments to free up capital to ease the building of housing. Outside of the government what private company is going to not want to maximize their profit when building housing? Rental units and low income housing will never be prioritized. Hell starter homes will never be prioritized there’s no money in them.
Every opportunity for any level of government that is flush with land to say “we will build housing” like they did decades ago. Of course that would require real leadership and we all know that’s not what is on the menu in politics anymore.
The biggest impediment to increasing trade with countries that aren’t 50km away is the cost and logistics of shipping.
Given their proximity, the US is always going to be looked at as the easiest place to trade with.
Of course, having a chaotic baboon running the place does change that calculation somewhat, but the fact that they’re just “across the stereet” still tilts that balance.
Isn’t there some kind of arbitration clause as well? I seem to remember that being a sticking point, exactly because our government saw creative redefinitions like that coming.
In the current NAFTA 2.0 agreement, signed in 2018, there is a 6-year renegotiation provision. That’s what Trump is using to change a whole host of things in the deal.
Buy next to nothing. Fuck this god damned country. No holiday gift giving…just cook a meal and invite people over for music and conversation. Maybe play cards together.
Edit: Just realized I was in a Canada sublemmy. My humblest apologies. You fine people do as you wish, but us curs in your filthy subbasement need to resist the shit out of this festering jejunal carbuncle’s self-imposed monarchy.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !canada@lemmy.ca
On the other hand, I’d love to see a short trade war, because it hits Trump-loving provinces the hardest. Let leopards eat their faces.
I think it’s cruel to wish ill fate on a fellow Canadian. Please consider that no province in this country, from east to west, is a monoculture, politically speaking. I say this as an Albertan.
Oh this isn’t ill will. It’s good for them. Some lessons are hard. Hopefully Trump will give them some self-realization that they are not American but Trump’s enemies.
It doesn’t come across that way.
I understand the sentiment people might have towards the western provinces, but i personally don’t think its nice to paint the whole group with a broad stroke. I know good people in alberta.
Which provinces do you think would not get hurt by this, or even not as much? BC is the only one that might get away okay that I can think of, and I’m not even sure about that.
Trust me, I know EVERYONE will get hurt by a trade war because each province trade with the US more than with each other. But one in particular will be brought to its knees.
Ontario?
Oil and gas products were the single biggest export item to the US at US$128.5b in 2023. The next biggest category was vehicles at US$58b.
Oil can, at some additional price, be redirected, though. A specific part for an American automobile, on the other hand…
Then again, Ontario is just as conservative lately, and has always been more American, so if it’s revenge against the right you’re after maybe that works.
No. Oil and gas are very hard to ship. Canadian oil is of heavy type which most of the world doesn’t use. Gas needs LNG terminals and we simply haven’t built. EU has been urging Canada to build some in Quebec and Maritimes so they can reduce dependence on Russia. Most of the pipelines go to the US south for refining - in Louisiana and Texas. Canadian producers have no choice but to sell to them, at whatever they want to pay. That’s why Alberta was bitching and moaning about building the pipeline to BC so that they can get a better price for their heavy oil elsewhere and Trudeau spent billions to appease them but that pipeline’s been in limbo.
Tank trucks exist, they’re just more expensive, which is why pipelines have been on the agenda. We also have upgraders that make heavy oil light - I’ve seen some desulfering plants in person (yes, I’m in this picture, if only geographically). It’s a distillation away from being petrol (and heavy/heating oil and asphalt), and the main cost of shipping is petrol, so the economic case is really just driven by the need for it at the other end.
Meanwhile, in Ontario a part crosses the border multiple times on it’s way to being generally saleable as a car, and would rack up 25% every time as the policy is currently proposed. You’re right, Alberta will be in the shitter economically, but we’re not the most vulnerable, let alone the most vulnerable by far.
On the one hand this is threatening and scary. On the other hand, this is Trump’s way of declaring opening position on a new trade agreement. He’s scrapping the old one he made.
I don’t get why more people don’t understand this. He’s just setting the tone for negotiations. He’s playing hardball, even with his closest allies…
He’s doing what his Russian oligarch owners are paying him to do.
He’s literally getting money from Russian oligarchs who are controlled by Putin.
I don’t get why more people don’t understand this.
He’s not negotiating, he’s helping to destroy the country from within for his own personal gain.
https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA?si=YhWk-9UOjNyU04uV
This has been the plan since Russia started losing the Cold War. Trump was the first time a Russian asset reached the presidency.
Anyone who has been paying attention understands that trumps idea of negotiation is to get everything and give nothing.
He doesn’t operate on the idea of mutually beneficial outcomes. The only way he understands him winning is to make everyone else lose.
Why would we waste time with a new agreement in the next 4 years when it won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on?
Including auto parts made in Canada and shipped to the US to be installed on made-in-America cars.
Yeah, the next test is how he responds to all the Americans begging him for a carve-out at the very least. He could tell them to pound sand, or completely reverse course. Both seem about as likely.
I bet there will be carveouts.
The stock markets seem to think so, anyway.
On the one hand, big investors have ears in Washington I don’t. On the other, they’re the exact kind of educated, well-to-do people who suddenly have no imagination when it comes to history happening again.
Do we manufacture the gold toilets, or just supply the gold?
I legit want to know who supplies gold toilets now.
For his biggest donors
call me a conspiracy theorist however much you want. I still believe that he and his friends such as elon musk will purposefully crash the american economy to be able to purchase stocks at a lower price
It’s not just stocks they can buy up houses and land for super cheap and cause an even worse housing crisis
No way the guy who made so much money with crypto would do this to the country /s
Honestly there’s easier ways to use politics for money, if that’s actually their conscious goal.
The rich already crash everything else to buy up the world on then cheap.
Trump’s policies break parts of society, he’s breaking apart society and selling off the pieces.
Grift is always the goal
I wish the other problems facing citizens of Canada were treated with this same kind of urgency from the federal government.
Day to day problems are rarely handled by the federal government.
You’d need to ask your provincial and municipal governments why they aren’t moving with urgency to help Canadians.
While you’re at it, ask Doug Ford why he hates the people of Ontario.
I’m not sure I understand your point. I’m talking about things like housing and affordability, which affect people across the country. These things could be handled more proactively on the federal level, and with coordination between GoC and the provinces. A $250 cheque and a gst holiday in advance of an election is bread and circuses. There are real issues that the nation is far behind on. The current government has done a bad job with these. They’ve lacked the ability or will to even identify housing and affordability as matters for intervention.
Sorry, I just can’t agree with anyone who thinks the current federal government has done all they could do to address these issues. The whole notion of “that’s not the job of the federal government”, it’s mealymouthed, and I don’t think it’s an acceptable position.
Housing is not the responsibility of the federal government. Any support they offer would need to be handled by Provincial leadership and municipalities.
As for “affordability”… that’s a very broad term. Are you referring to anything in particular?
The issue with blaming the feds, is that the feds can only do as much as the other governments (provincial and municipal) are willing to do.
In Ontario, for example, we have a crisis in education, healthcare, public safety, poverty, and crime.
These are issues that affect nearly all Ontarians on a daily basis, yet our government wants to waste money, and people want to blame Trudeau.
Our Provincial Government should be primarily focused on those concerns, but they’d rather misspend tens of millions to remove safe cycling infrastructure from the City of Toronto.
And you should also keep in mind that we have a minority Federal Government, so other parties, including those known to NOT CARE about people, are creating consistent roadblocks to progress in areas where the Feds have influence.
Better tax breaks and incentives for first time buyers, higher restrictions on foreign and corporate ownership of single family homes. Etc. There are plenty of things a motivated federal government could do. This government isn’t motivated to address the housing issue.
Something over and above the toothless grocery code of conduct, which hasn’t even been agreed upon? Lower tax rates on earnings for people near and below a living wage, which itself is indexed to inflation.
Not while the Liberals held a majority from 2015-2019, and not during the supply and confidence agreement from 2021-2024. It’s incorrect to argue that the Liberals have been hamstrung by a minority Parliament. They could have accomplished anything they wanted to.
We should demand more from our federal government. The Liberals have been bad, and I don’t understand the view that they’ve done well under the circumstances. They haven’t. I read your comment as apologism for the Liberals, and I genuinely don’t understand that position.
The feds doubled first time home buyer’s tax credit (2022), set up a “first home savings account” (2023), offers a home buyer’s plan, and some provinces offer their own rebates.
And as a reminder, even when the feds offer tax breaks to help people, Provinces bitch and complain, like with the recent announcement of a tax-break on certain consumer goods.
The feds announced an extension on bans on foreign ownership of Canadian housing.
There are a LOT of tax credits, rebates, and support for low-income individuals and families. Sure, we can always do more, but the feds have not stopped announcing new programs and extending existing ones.
Was affordability and housing prices a major problem back then? I don’t seem to recall any of the same ongoing reports of people struggling back then.
Things like minimum wage are set by Provinces and territories. Only federal employees are impacted by the federal government’s minimum wages.
Yes, we should always demand more. No doubt.
But it seems like the things you’re asking for are already in place, and/or are the responsibility of the Provincial government.
Yes, this is what I’m saying. The federal government can do things to address these issues. I’m not a policymaker, I’m just some jackass sitting at a computer. A government with vision could make strides.
And to my initial point, a government that could build political bridges with the provinces would be even more effective.
I don’t disagree that a lot of the Liberal actions have been milquetoast… but they have at some point implemented the things you asked for, for what parts of housing that is in their purview:
Banned foreign homebuyers in 2022 and extended it to 2027
Doubled the tax credit in 2021 and added a ‘flipping’ tax
Added the ability to get into 30 year mortgages (good and bad, but it is something that would make payments easier)
They’ve done the things you were looking for (I don’t think perfectly at all, mind you), yet within the provinces, only the BCNDP govt. has taken any independent leadership on their part of addressing the housing crisis. Ford has only gotten in the way, and a handful of municipalities have taken action, such as in Edmonton. Yet, people at large and especially Premiers are all pointing the finger at Trudeau for problems instead of thinking how to help.
Isn’t that the whole point of a “Team Canada approach”? All the provinces have their own needs and abilities, but we need some sort of coordination to make sure we’re all aiming for the same goal. And while housing may not directly be their responsibility the feds should be there for the assist with whatever the provinces need but can’t do themselves.
What I’ve observed is that the feds can give provinces all the money they like, but if the provinces are misspending or not spending those funds, you see no results.
This happened in Ontario during the pandemic. The Ford government underspent in healthcare while doctors and nurses begged for relief. It cost their lives, and the quality of our healthcare to drop significantly.
At the same time, this government has $48 million to remove bike lanes from Toronto, and apparently billions to build an underground tunnel for cars under the 401.
The feds can only do so much when provinces are incapable of producing effective leadership.
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Bang on. They’re all culpable and doing nothing to address the underlying problem because they all know the solution bites the hand that feeds them (those with money).
As a good example we all witnessed over the last year + constant initiatives by all governments to free up capital to ease the building of housing. Outside of the government what private company is going to not want to maximize their profit when building housing? Rental units and low income housing will never be prioritized. Hell starter homes will never be prioritized there’s no money in them.
Every opportunity for any level of government that is flush with land to say “we will build housing” like they did decades ago. Of course that would require real leadership and we all know that’s not what is on the menu in politics anymore.
This one’s pretty damn existential. Man, you thought inflation was bad before…
Welp. Time to join the EU.
Absolutely, however it’s done, Canada needs to reduce its trade dependency on the USA.
Canadaabsolutely everyone. The US has went senile.The biggest impediment to increasing trade with countries that aren’t 50km away is the cost and logistics of shipping.
Given their proximity, the US is always going to be looked at as the easiest place to trade with.
Of course, having a chaotic baboon running the place does change that calculation somewhat, but the fact that they’re just “across the stereet” still tilts that balance.
Seriously, we should be getting in with them really hard right now. It’s the only hope if we want to stay relevant as a sovereign nation in any way.
How is this legal under NAFTA?
Under CUSMA it’s not. Not even remotely. Ask if he cares.
What are you gonna do, call the Earth police?
In theory, USMCA is a law (his own law…) that has been passed by the US Congress. So in theory, he shouldn’t be able to just tear it up at a whim.
In practice, with US institutions captured by the trumpist republicans, lol yea.
EDIT: also “the 2020 deal allows for national security exceptions”, so that’s why he’s blathering about the crap he’s blathering about. EDIT2: Here, article 32.2.
Isn’t there some kind of arbitration clause as well? I seem to remember that being a sticking point, exactly because our government saw creative redefinitions like that coming.
Last time he was in power, he unilaterally tore up the original NAFTA agreement. He’s far more unhinged and unrestrained this time.
It probably is under USMCA:
“[T]he 2020 deal allows for national security exceptions”, which is why he’s blathering about the crap he’s blathering about.
See here, article 32.2(b).
In the current NAFTA 2.0 agreement, signed in 2018, there is a 6-year renegotiation provision. That’s what Trump is using to change a whole host of things in the deal.
I don’t think fascists are big on fair play.
NAFTA hasn’t existed for years.
CUSMA is basically NAFTA 2.0, though, so that’s not the most helpful reply.
Alright. https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/cusma-aceum/nafta-cusma_aceum-alena.aspx?lang=eng
That won’t load for me for whatever reason. Weird.
It definitely was renegotiated to cover the same parties, and right as the old deal finished.
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Buy next to nothing. Fuck this god damned country. No holiday gift giving…just cook a meal and invite people over for music and conversation. Maybe play cards together.
Edit: Just realized I was in a Canada sublemmy. My humblest apologies. You fine people do as you wish, but us curs in your filthy subbasement need to resist the shit out of this festering jejunal carbuncle’s self-imposed monarchy.
i know a few good card games
Don’t buy american stuff.
He’s a nut job. He won’t last a year before his pack of insane clowns implode.