Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis issued an apology on Saturday in response to criticism over their character letters in support of convicted rapist Danny Masterson.
The three women were members of the Church of Scientology, as is Masterson. All three women said they were initially hesitant to speak to law enforcement because they said church teachings discouraged reporting to police. The women eventually left the church.
Cults are bad, people. Religion is bad because it’s a normalized / accepted cult. Eff this guy.
I noticed that Topher Grace didn’t get mentioned for writing a letter to the judge. I’ve never thought he’s a great actor (he was pretty good in Traffic), but I like him a bit more now.
I am so tired of this dynamic, both in high profile cases and in my own local community. If people gave even a tenth of the support they give to accused predators, to the actual people they have hurt, the world would be a completely different place. I don’t understand the instinct here to shame and ostracize survivors but lionize the people accused of rape and abuse. I’m exhausted.
Edit: I want to add: People do deserve support while they work on changing, but this isn’t that. They were trying to help his case and rehabilitate his character, not help him take accountability and make amends. That’s what makes it so awful. You can support someone you love in taking responsibility for their their actions, without downplaying the seriousness of it or shielding them from what they did. This is the latter. People always say they’re doing the former, but there is a massive distinction.
They were asked to write their personal experience with him. And that’s what they did. I didn’t see anything defending his actions or condemning the charges.
It was specifically done after the ruling and after they read the horrific victim statements. Make of the fact that they could still stomach writing a character testimony letter after that what you will. They weren’t subpoenaed, they were asked by his family. Also, Ashton Kutcher runs a nonprofit dedicated to helping sexual assault victims.
I don’t know about you guys, but if a great friend and coworker I knew to be an upstanding person got accused of raping people I didn’t know, I’d be with my friend all the way.
When it comes out they actually did the thing? You condemn what they did.
This isn’t some weird ‘gotcha’. This is people who like to scrutinize people who watch the Kardashians essentially doing the same thing on the internet lol.
Having your trust and integrity betrayed is one of the most human and humbling moments possible. One which anybody who’s had more than two friends or a family in their life has ALREADY gone through.
What a pile of low life tabloid shitmongery.
Don’t be a fucking hypocrite. Do you want people to change their opinions with new information or not?
The couple knew these women. They had these women to their houses. Danny wasn’t raping strangers in dark alleyways, he was raping partners when they said no. Chrissie was with him for 6 years.
After hearing the evidence. After him being convicted. They both wrote statements saying he was a great guy.
In their interactions and personal knowledge, perhaps he was. If you personally don’t know Danny or anyone else involved, your only exposure is what you’ve heard presented and made public. If you personally knew Danny and hadn’t witnessed any of these crimes yourself, you now have a conflicted view of someone who is both your friend and now guilty of 2 counts of sexual assault. While that conviction almost certainly changes your relationship going forward, it doesn’t change how you thought of that individual beforehand.
Ashton and Mila were asked to write letters of character that described the Danny they knew. It doesn’t change the outcome of the trial, but as with matters that carry different sentencing structures awarded by the judge, a judge will often take letters like this to determine what is appropriate. Is there a chance that the defendant will repeat this offense? What punishment, if any, will be restorative to the victims? How does this punishment affect everyone, including families established years afterwards? Is the defendant the same person today as they were when they committed these crimes?
These aren’t matters easily decided and therfore it isn’t surprising to see letters of character submitted either as part of the trial or during sentencing. If there is a patten of behavior, then sentencing might be maximum allowed, but if there’s no clear discernable behavior, then sentencing might be light.
I don’t know all the details that was considered, but based on my knowledge from reports, I think 15 years concurrent would have been appropriate. However, I don’t have all the evidence or material to make an informed decision. I don’t look upon these letters ss reflecting poorly on Ashton or Mila as they were just doing what was asked of them to help give the judge the context necessary to carry out an appropriate sentence. They aren’t guilty of doing anything wrong, more than the lawyers defending a now convicted and sentenced rapist.
If I had a friend I knew for decades that was convicted of some awful shit like this, I’d find it pretty easy to just not write a letter about their good character. Maybe I never saw even a hint of the monster that was convicted, but it’d be pretty messed up for me to just ignore the reality of the present and talk about how good they were to me in the past. Attesting to someone’s character has a limit. They could have very easily just kept their mouths shut on this topic not supported a convicted rapist. My hypothetical friend can go deal with the consequences of their own actions themselves while I try to internally come to terms with the fact that my friend betrayed me by lying to my face for so long.
I mean, their letter wasn’t written after he was accused though, it was written after he was convicted of it. They weren’t merely expressing shock or disbelief, they were trying to provide a character witness to try to reduce his sentence on his RAPE CONVICTION.
I absolutely hate this situation and I was going to write a whole thing about how we wouldn’t do the same thing if an upstanding husband and father was convicted of murder, except oh yes people literally actually do do the same thing. You’ll literally have letters written like “he made a mistake but he has kids at home please go easy on him” as if actual murder isn’t a pretty big disqualifier.
I guess we humans have a blind spot to the most common sins versus the mythical perfect criminal who spits on babies and hails satan…
I still believe in forgiveness when people admit their wrongs and explain their thought process without bullshit. We all make mistakes, sometimes really stupid ones.
Yes, writing a letter to get sentence reduction might be reasonable if it were a non-violent crime. Shoplifting, tax fraud or drugs or something, I dont know. But not rape for effs sake.
I doubt Ashton and Mila apologized because they actually regret writing those letters; this is just damage control because they got caught defending a rapist. Also, Scientology isn’t a religion, it’s a criminal organization, and it ought to be treated as such.
I was disappointed to hear that Kurtwood Smith wrote a letter in support of Masterson too. I really liked him in RoboCop… but I guess there’s a reason why he was so good at acting like a total bastard.
“As a role model, Danny has consistently been an excellent one,” Kutcher wrote, later writing, “He has always treated people with decency, equality, and generosity.”
Not that I want to throw shade at his current work, but this is a pretty big red flag on his credibility towards siding with victims. ESPECIALLY since this is was in relation to defending a Scientologist, a known organzation for SA.
People can have multiple personalities, not as in a mental condition, but as in that you’re a different person at work than who you are at your parent’s. Rapist are also like that. Rapists aten’t rapists 24/7. Sometimes they can be just nice people. That doesn’t make it right, but that does make that you can’t judge someone for not knowing that a coworker or even a friend was a rapist all this time.
Well, if republican politicians and catholic priests are any guide, this means Kutcher and Moore are almost certainly prolific child abusers.
EDIT: oh FFS, their org is THORN?!? The same group of wine mommies trying to destroy the internet with that awful and mislabeled “kids online safety act”?
Fuck them AND their parent-pandering bullshit. Scientologists are nasty business.
I don’t even have to actively boycott. I just feel weird watching Scientologists leading movies and shows. I find it odd that people can get excited to go watch Tom Cruise in a movie.
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I am so tired of this dynamic, both in high profile cases and in my own local community. If people gave even a tenth of the support they give to accused predators, to the actual people they have hurt, the world would be a completely different place. I don’t understand the instinct here to shame and ostracize survivors but lionize the people accused of rape and abuse. I’m exhausted.
Edit: I want to add: People do deserve support while they work on changing, but this isn’t that. They were trying to help his case and rehabilitate his character, not help him take accountability and make amends. That’s what makes it so awful. You can support someone you love in taking responsibility for their their actions, without downplaying the seriousness of it or shielding them from what they did. This is the latter. People always say they’re doing the former, but there is a massive distinction.
Topher’s wife put out a statement in support of the victims. Which is where the support should be, in my opinion.
and Topher, afaik, knew well enough to stfu
They were asked to write their personal experience with him. And that’s what they did. I didn’t see anything defending his actions or condemning the charges.
It was specifically done after the ruling and after they read the horrific victim statements. Make of the fact that they could still stomach writing a character testimony letter after that what you will. They weren’t subpoenaed, they were asked by his family. Also, Ashton Kutcher runs a nonprofit dedicated to helping sexual assault victims.
I don’t know about you guys, but if a great friend and coworker I knew to be an upstanding person got accused of raping people I didn’t know, I’d be with my friend all the way.
When it comes out they actually did the thing? You condemn what they did.
This isn’t some weird ‘gotcha’. This is people who like to scrutinize people who watch the Kardashians essentially doing the same thing on the internet lol.
Having your trust and integrity betrayed is one of the most human and humbling moments possible. One which anybody who’s had more than two friends or a family in their life has ALREADY gone through.
What a pile of low life tabloid shitmongery.
Don’t be a fucking hypocrite. Do you want people to change their opinions with new information or not?
The couple knew these women. They had these women to their houses. Danny wasn’t raping strangers in dark alleyways, he was raping partners when they said no. Chrissie was with him for 6 years.
After hearing the evidence. After him being convicted. They both wrote statements saying he was a great guy.
In their interactions and personal knowledge, perhaps he was. If you personally don’t know Danny or anyone else involved, your only exposure is what you’ve heard presented and made public. If you personally knew Danny and hadn’t witnessed any of these crimes yourself, you now have a conflicted view of someone who is both your friend and now guilty of 2 counts of sexual assault. While that conviction almost certainly changes your relationship going forward, it doesn’t change how you thought of that individual beforehand.
Ashton and Mila were asked to write letters of character that described the Danny they knew. It doesn’t change the outcome of the trial, but as with matters that carry different sentencing structures awarded by the judge, a judge will often take letters like this to determine what is appropriate. Is there a chance that the defendant will repeat this offense? What punishment, if any, will be restorative to the victims? How does this punishment affect everyone, including families established years afterwards? Is the defendant the same person today as they were when they committed these crimes?
These aren’t matters easily decided and therfore it isn’t surprising to see letters of character submitted either as part of the trial or during sentencing. If there is a patten of behavior, then sentencing might be maximum allowed, but if there’s no clear discernable behavior, then sentencing might be light.
I don’t know all the details that was considered, but based on my knowledge from reports, I think 15 years concurrent would have been appropriate. However, I don’t have all the evidence or material to make an informed decision. I don’t look upon these letters ss reflecting poorly on Ashton or Mila as they were just doing what was asked of them to help give the judge the context necessary to carry out an appropriate sentence. They aren’t guilty of doing anything wrong, more than the lawyers defending a now convicted and sentenced rapist.
If I had a friend I knew for decades that was convicted of some awful shit like this, I’d find it pretty easy to just not write a letter about their good character. Maybe I never saw even a hint of the monster that was convicted, but it’d be pretty messed up for me to just ignore the reality of the present and talk about how good they were to me in the past. Attesting to someone’s character has a limit. They could have very easily just kept their mouths shut on this topic not supported a convicted rapist. My hypothetical friend can go deal with the consequences of their own actions themselves while I try to internally come to terms with the fact that my friend betrayed me by lying to my face for so long.
I mean, their letter wasn’t written after he was accused though, it was written after he was convicted of it. They weren’t merely expressing shock or disbelief, they were trying to provide a character witness to try to reduce his sentence on his RAPE CONVICTION.
I absolutely hate this situation and I was going to write a whole thing about how we wouldn’t do the same thing if an upstanding husband and father was convicted of murder, except oh yes people literally actually do do the same thing. You’ll literally have letters written like “he made a mistake but he has kids at home please go easy on him” as if actual murder isn’t a pretty big disqualifier.
I guess we humans have a blind spot to the most common sins versus the mythical perfect criminal who spits on babies and hails satan…
The difference is that most people aren’t in charge of charities meant to help sexual assualt victims.
I still believe in forgiveness when people admit their wrongs and explain their thought process without bullshit. We all make mistakes, sometimes really stupid ones.
I’m not sure if anyone involved actually admitted their wrongs, it sounds like Ashton is sorry people felt bad not that he did it
Why are you just assuming that this happened?
Yes, writing a letter to get sentence reduction might be reasonable if it were a non-violent crime. Shoplifting, tax fraud or drugs or something, I dont know. But not rape for effs sake.
Celebrity. Gossip. Is. Not. News.
Rapists in a cult that have been convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison is definitely news, celebrity or not.
yes it is
To shallow people, maybe.
Too late. You are now marked as Scientologist scum.
I doubt Ashton and Mila apologized because they actually regret writing those letters; this is just damage control because they got caught defending a rapist. Also, Scientology isn’t a religion, it’s a criminal organization, and it ought to be treated as such.
I was disappointed to hear that Kurtwood Smith wrote a letter in support of Masterson too. I really liked him in RoboCop… but I guess there’s a reason why he was so good at acting like a total bastard.
Hasn’t Ashton Kutcher essentially stopped acting and dedicated his life to fighting child predation?
Edit: I guess it’s Moore and Kutcher. https://www.thorn.org/about-our-fight-against-sexual-exploitation-of-children/
So you’d think he’d know better.
Except when defending adult rapists I guess?
Not that I want to throw shade at his current work, but this is a pretty big red flag on his credibility towards siding with victims. ESPECIALLY since this is was in relation to defending a Scientologist, a known organzation for SA.
I guess I should RTFA, but it’s definitive he knew that Masterson was a scientologist, and knew about all the scientology stuff?
People can have multiple personalities, not as in a mental condition, but as in that you’re a different person at work than who you are at your parent’s. Rapist are also like that. Rapists aten’t rapists 24/7. Sometimes they can be just nice people. That doesn’t make it right, but that does make that you can’t judge someone for not knowing that a coworker or even a friend was a rapist all this time.
Well, if republican politicians and catholic priests are any guide, this means Kutcher and Moore are almost certainly prolific child abusers.
EDIT: oh FFS, their org is THORN?!? The same group of wine mommies trying to destroy the internet with that awful and mislabeled “kids online safety act”?
Fuck them AND their parent-pandering bullshit. Scientologists are nasty business.
Cult vs Criminal Org. Both can be true.
Yeah the largest biological weapon attack on US soil was a cult.
One of my favorite Down The Rabbit Hole videos. Too bad it’s not on Youtube anymore…
Sounds good! I learned about it from Wikipedia, which is a bit dry.
For those looking, the video is about Rajneeshpuram. But you can also find a well-done Netflix documentary on it.
Will look out for it!
Religion and criminal organizations don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Just look at the Catholic Church.
Their apology was a way to dip their toes in acting again.
Kutcher is already in an upcoming movie.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4585910/
Mila Kunis is in two projects.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10171472/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4209550/
Lol, Kutchers is with James Franco, a man completely devoid of any scandals with girls and young women! /s
deleted by creator
I like Topher. His podcast was charming as heck.
They’re just trying not to get canceled.
Can we please start to cancel these scientology fuckheads altogether
I don’t even have to actively boycott. I just feel weird watching Scientologists leading movies and shows. I find it odd that people can get excited to go watch Tom Cruise in a movie.
shoulda talked to their PR person first on this one
I hadn’t been aware that Scientology was mixed up in all this but I am not in the least surprised to learn it.