Car manufacturers should get out of the dashboard design business. Just have an API standard for devices to control the car, and a USB port for users to plug in whichever device works best for them. You want a bunch of physical buttons? Cool, go down to AutoZone and buy a button panel that matches your needs. You want a big screen with carplay and a bunch of widgets? Mount your old iPad there.
The regulatory side would be the hard part. Devices would have to meet some safety standards and the car would have to refuse to drive unless an approved dashboard was connected, but it could be done.
This would inevitably put the manufacturer in a bind though. You’d have a pile of pissed off customers standing in a line one morning for you, because Apple or some third party pushed an update that suddenly makes the product incompatible with your car, and they’d be screaming at you about it. You’d have techs piled around a car scratching their heads, like is it the car that’s fucked up, is it the device? All without knowing that some third party has randomly done something unbeknown to the person who is scratching their head trying to figure it out. It’s frustrating when your Android Auto isn’t working suddenly for reasons like this one, this I personally know all about. But could you imagine if it was suddenly the whole dashboard that wasn’t working?
Also it beholdens you to third parties to provide solutions that you can’t really control from a quality standpoint, but any quality or compatibility issues will 100% affect the customers perception of your product. For example, “I can’t get my iPhone to work in that piece of shit car, I fucking hate that far so much,” because they can’t control the car suddenly either.
Don’t get me wrong, your idea is neat, and it would be cool if you could get that all to work, for sure. But it’s also fraught with peril, you know what I mean?
First sensible comment I’ve seen. Don’t know why so many people want to be forced to use proprietary software, whether GM’s, Apple’s or Google’s to use their car.
Like, could I just have the aux jack back please? I can frig with my phone before I put the car in drive and just push audio through the speakers, I don’t need to be able to sort through my playlists or make calls from the steering wheel, I’m distracted enough by billboards, for chrissakes. The only thing I like about my phone being connected to my car is that I can skip forward and back, that’s it.
Yeah what’s up with that?! My new car comes with a host of connection possibilities, but lacks a simple jack. I still use that 5th gen iPod, is it too much to ask for a connector?
Honestly it’s probably because you are likely in the minority in wanting this, at least according to the car manufacturers. Cell phones haven’t had audio jacks for a few years now. Most iPods are in junk drawers, dying long and slow deaths. Take a look around the next time you are in a crowd, the people with headphones on, like 90% of them are going to be airpods or other Bluetooth style headphones.
Ain’t saying I like it either, don’t get me wrong, but I imagine that’s probably the logic behind it.
I’ve a Mazda with Android Auto that doesn’t use a touch screen. It’s all controlled with a joystick/knob/button setup that is actually really nice. I wish my Nissan had a similar setup all the time.
In the Mazda I know how many physical interactions will get me the result I want, it takes barely more than a glance at the screen to know what’s up. With the touch interface I have to put my eyes on the screen to confirm that the car didn’t bounce when I went to tap a “button” and/or confirm that the tap was actually registered. I know that GM has to know that Android Auto supports non touchscreen interactions. If they’re concerned about how unsafe touchscreens are, just add a knob to the center console that doubles as a 4-way joystick like Mazda has and all those concerns go away. It’s really that simple and it IS miles better than using touch for everything.
I have a 2016 with no android auto support, and my biggest pet peave is that the infotainment system is absolutely the worst I’ve seen.
I’ve been planning a long project of replacing it with a customized tablet, but I’m afraid whatever I land on won’t integrate that push wheel control well, because it’s just so damn nice
My Mazda is a 2016 CX-5. It was a limited option in 2016, but it was an option, and it only cost me $400 to purchase the upgraded head unit and have it installed by my Mazda dealership. I don’t know what model yours is, but 2016 is the year that you can actually look into the option depending. It was going to run me more than $400 to do my own AA solution with the risks of losing the steering wheel or knob controls, so $400 for the upgrade that retains all of that without any hacky workarounds was a godsend.
I bought mine used, so I didn’t really have the option to upgrade anything but the tires.
The head unit has some pretty bad pressure cracking in the screen, so really it would be a full replace regardless. I used a open sourced hack at one point to add AA to the default software, which worked for a while, but I started having issues with it freezing and hard-resetting while I was driving and using google maps on it, so I had to take it off (i think AA made an update that broke the hack)
I’m not the original owner of my Mazda either, I had the upgrade done well after the original sale of that vehicle. I had also looked into the software modding scene but decided that an official upgrade costing only $400 wasn’t worth the potential headaches of hacky homebrew updates I had to service myself.
Yea, I’m just also generally really disinterested in OEM software, and on principal I believe I should have exclusive rights to my own data and the data of the things I own. It still enrages me that in order to pull data about the car systems that are normally accessible through the headunit, I basically have to decrypt binary signals from the canbus myself, since they intentionally do not make those codes available.
TL:DR, i’ve made my life so much harder with my principles, but I am who I am
Yeah, I do enjoy jumping into my wife’s Mazda every now and then, for just this reason. Touch screens requires too much attention be diverted away from the critical task of driving, as people need to look at the screen for the purpose of aiming a finger at a control on it.
The steering wheel controls for my Ford’s Sync are good for volume, music back/forward, and phone calls, but that’s it. It’s the reason I still need to use a voice assistant while driving. I really hate using the touch screen except at the start or end of journey.
It’s a very thin argument about it being buggy and/or users picking up their phones when that happens. There’s no way they have data to quantify that. I use voice commands exclusively and as others have said the only things I wrestle with are climate and non-integrated functions. It’s way safer to do AA or CarPlay in my experience.
It’s GMs bet to lose here. I would immediately pass on a vehicle without CarPlay. My old Toyota had a horrible interface and I was quoted $300 just to update the map, not even a new radio, literally just a software update. No thank you.
To achieve this, GM’s new system — called Ultifi, which is making its debut in the 2024 Chevy Blazer EV — uses Google apps built right into the system, like Google Maps and Assistant, which GM hopes customers will use for more voice controls. It can handle things like calls and texts, and it can control the audio and climate systems.
Now you have an embedded Android device that is never gonna be upgraded for the lifetime of the car.
I highly doubt an aftermarket unit will work. Today, most units are integrated into the entire car system. Removing the unit from my car would mean losing access to a lot of functionality. I doubt the car would even accept a 3rd party unit. And this is not a Tesla.
You’d be surprised. Check AliExpress. There are aftermarket units built to fit perfectly into every dumb auto fascia they’ve come up with to prevent it. A simple harness adapted is usually sufficient to restore steering wheel controls etc.
I’ve heard of a couple of vehicles where you simply cannot replace the media centre because it doubles as climate control input etc but the simple answer is: refuse to buy those vehicles.
I know all that, the point is modern infotainments do way more than just play music. Look, I wish it was different, but most cars built today have controls in the infotainment that you can’t have anywhere else. Like very specific settings for interior and exterior lighting, consumption metrics, creature comforts, just to name a few. That’s not a simple case of getting the wires correctly installed like it was before. And good luck finding just the right car with a dumb head unit, even simple cars today are fitted with this stuff.
So I’m assuming that means that they’re admitting that they put a safety hazard in all those prior cars and are assuming liability for every accident where infotainment systems may have been involved, right?
If they’re going to lie to pretend they can’t include it because it’s unsafe when every single person on the planet knows with 100% certainty that it’s because they want their own cash/data hungry alternative instead, then putting said “unsafe” thing in their vehicles should absolutely expose them to liability.
There absolutely is not a theoretical possibility that “safety” was a genuine consideration in any way in this decision.
Yeah because I’m sure GM’s shit will be better. Idek why I’m addressing this: we all know GM doesn’t want to pay Apple or Google. That this is really about more renting and never owning. They just want more money.
GM, just say that. We know you’re a gigantic money-hungry corp. You all don’t have to lie and pretend to care about safety. We’re not a bunch of idiots. We get it, even if you all suck for doing this.
I’d say I hope GM crashes and burns again, but then the government will just bail them out again.
This is all about maintaining and selling your data for themselves. There was just a report out last week about how cars are one of the most data insecure devices you can own because of how poorly all the big auto manufacturers treat their customers.
We know you’re a gigantic money-hungry corp. You all don’t have to lie and pretend to care about safety. We’re not a bunch of idiots.
Alas, as long as there is doubt, there are a large number of suckers who are willing to give the benefit of the doubt. We are a bunch of idiots, collectively. That’s why shit like this works.
I doubt it’s about paying Apple or Google, so um much as their ability to extort car owners to pay them. Nobody in their right mind will buy the $10/month Bullshit Subscription ™ from GM when they can just plug in their phone and use Waze.
Cool, then I’m dropping GM from my list of cars that I’ll buy or rent. CarPlay is a must have in 2023, just like a backup camera. Literally nobody wants your shitty car OS thing, it’s guaranteed to be way worse than iOS and Android.
Seems like this ought to be a dealbreaker for many.
literally any change or a new feature in any product of any company is only about collecting and selling your data, and never about making something actually better.
You know what’s unsafe? Putting a long-ass disclosure about keeping your eyes on the road that you have to close before you can use your infotainment center. We know how to drive, dude. Adding a distraction doesn’t improve safety, it makes it worse.
Let’s be honest, GM can’t make money off owners using this software. They can make their own and have owners pay a subscription like some Tesla owners do now.
Apple car is not the issue. It’s all the other touch inputs that I have on my car to control every basic function like the climate controls and other shit.
Apple car switches on, already the navigation is setup and the music is on… I don’t need to touch it again. I can switch songs on my steering wheel and I can ask Siri for basic shit like finding a playlist.
I don’t need to go through a touch menu or button to change the temperature or any other action setting while in motion.
in fact, much of CarPlay’s functionality becomes locked while the car is in motion, making that a moot point anyway, lol. the only things left to distract or endanger would be the OEM stuff, as you mention.
i don’t use it enough to know, but i think the UI varies a little between vehicles and models, so it may not be in the same spot for everyone-- or even look exactly the same.
as for a Siri command, you may try something like, “Set my notifications to…” or something like that.
I mostly use Waze for navigation. And the alerts button setting is pretty small. However I find that just having it on alerts is enough for day to day use.
It’s true that for new routes I do enable the full guided voice assist
My car is a 2017 and its entertainment system hasn’t been update since then. I don’t want to pay the $250 to upgrade it or whatever the crazy price was.
My personal car (the second, mostly unused car in our family) is from 2016, and it has nav and everything, but it looks like it’s a commodore. It’s also woefully out of date, my house is in the middle of a cornfield according to my car. Literally unusable, and was pretty much right out of the gates even. Doesn’t work very well with my phone, I’m still able to stream Spotify and skip songs or whatever, but guess how I have to control it? The phone hooked to the cord and sitting on my seat.
My wife’s car, I don’t even think I’ve ever used the navigation. I’m not even really sure how her radio works come to think of it, because it just switches to Android Auto when I start it, and whatever I was doing on my phone, well it’s right there. Spotify starts up, and on the way we go. Don’t even look at it most of the time, if I’m being honest. Super unsafe for sure, the proprietary solution is for sure better (/s)
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Car manufacturers should get out of the dashboard design business. Just have an API standard for devices to control the car, and a USB port for users to plug in whichever device works best for them. You want a bunch of physical buttons? Cool, go down to AutoZone and buy a button panel that matches your needs. You want a big screen with carplay and a bunch of widgets? Mount your old iPad there.
The regulatory side would be the hard part. Devices would have to meet some safety standards and the car would have to refuse to drive unless an approved dashboard was connected, but it could be done.
This would inevitably put the manufacturer in a bind though. You’d have a pile of pissed off customers standing in a line one morning for you, because Apple or some third party pushed an update that suddenly makes the product incompatible with your car, and they’d be screaming at you about it. You’d have techs piled around a car scratching their heads, like is it the car that’s fucked up, is it the device? All without knowing that some third party has randomly done something unbeknown to the person who is scratching their head trying to figure it out. It’s frustrating when your Android Auto isn’t working suddenly for reasons like this one, this I personally know all about. But could you imagine if it was suddenly the whole dashboard that wasn’t working?
Also it beholdens you to third parties to provide solutions that you can’t really control from a quality standpoint, but any quality or compatibility issues will 100% affect the customers perception of your product. For example, “I can’t get my iPhone to work in that piece of shit car, I fucking hate that far so much,” because they can’t control the car suddenly either.
Don’t get me wrong, your idea is neat, and it would be cool if you could get that all to work, for sure. But it’s also fraught with peril, you know what I mean?
But there’s no money in that…
First sensible comment I’ve seen. Don’t know why so many people want to be forced to use proprietary software, whether GM’s, Apple’s or Google’s to use their car.
Well, there was the DIN standard for radios back in the day….
I think it’s technically still there… hidden behind custom fronts.
Like, could I just have the aux jack back please? I can frig with my phone before I put the car in drive and just push audio through the speakers, I don’t need to be able to sort through my playlists or make calls from the steering wheel, I’m distracted enough by billboards, for chrissakes. The only thing I like about my phone being connected to my car is that I can skip forward and back, that’s it.
Yeah what’s up with that?! My new car comes with a host of connection possibilities, but lacks a simple jack. I still use that 5th gen iPod, is it too much to ask for a connector?
Honestly it’s probably because you are likely in the minority in wanting this, at least according to the car manufacturers. Cell phones haven’t had audio jacks for a few years now. Most iPods are in junk drawers, dying long and slow deaths. Take a look around the next time you are in a crowd, the people with headphones on, like 90% of them are going to be airpods or other Bluetooth style headphones.
Ain’t saying I like it either, don’t get me wrong, but I imagine that’s probably the logic behind it.
And with proper software support, the aux jack can do some limited pause/forward/back!
I do really like Android Auto, but the reliability of the Aux connection is something I very sorely miss.
I’ve a Mazda with Android Auto that doesn’t use a touch screen. It’s all controlled with a joystick/knob/button setup that is actually really nice. I wish my Nissan had a similar setup all the time.
In the Mazda I know how many physical interactions will get me the result I want, it takes barely more than a glance at the screen to know what’s up. With the touch interface I have to put my eyes on the screen to confirm that the car didn’t bounce when I went to tap a “button” and/or confirm that the tap was actually registered. I know that GM has to know that Android Auto supports non touchscreen interactions. If they’re concerned about how unsafe touchscreens are, just add a knob to the center console that doubles as a 4-way joystick like Mazda has and all those concerns go away. It’s really that simple and it IS miles better than using touch for everything.
I have a 2016 with no android auto support, and my biggest pet peave is that the infotainment system is absolutely the worst I’ve seen.
I’ve been planning a long project of replacing it with a customized tablet, but I’m afraid whatever I land on won’t integrate that push wheel control well, because it’s just so damn nice
My Mazda is a 2016 CX-5. It was a limited option in 2016, but it was an option, and it only cost me $400 to purchase the upgraded head unit and have it installed by my Mazda dealership. I don’t know what model yours is, but 2016 is the year that you can actually look into the option depending. It was going to run me more than $400 to do my own AA solution with the risks of losing the steering wheel or knob controls, so $400 for the upgrade that retains all of that without any hacky workarounds was a godsend.
I bought mine used, so I didn’t really have the option to upgrade anything but the tires. The head unit has some pretty bad pressure cracking in the screen, so really it would be a full replace regardless. I used a open sourced hack at one point to add AA to the default software, which worked for a while, but I started having issues with it freezing and hard-resetting while I was driving and using google maps on it, so I had to take it off (i think AA made an update that broke the hack)
I’m not the original owner of my Mazda either, I had the upgrade done well after the original sale of that vehicle. I had also looked into the software modding scene but decided that an official upgrade costing only $400 wasn’t worth the potential headaches of hacky homebrew updates I had to service myself.
Yea, I’m just also generally really disinterested in OEM software, and on principal I believe I should have exclusive rights to my own data and the data of the things I own. It still enrages me that in order to pull data about the car systems that are normally accessible through the headunit, I basically have to decrypt binary signals from the canbus myself, since they intentionally do not make those codes available.
TL:DR, i’ve made my life so much harder with my principles, but I am who I am
Yeah, I do enjoy jumping into my wife’s Mazda every now and then, for just this reason. Touch screens requires too much attention be diverted away from the critical task of driving, as people need to look at the screen for the purpose of aiming a finger at a control on it.
The steering wheel controls for my Ford’s Sync are good for volume, music back/forward, and phone calls, but that’s it. It’s the reason I still need to use a voice assistant while driving. I really hate using the touch screen except at the start or end of journey.
It’s a very thin argument about it being buggy and/or users picking up their phones when that happens. There’s no way they have data to quantify that. I use voice commands exclusively and as others have said the only things I wrestle with are climate and non-integrated functions. It’s way safer to do AA or CarPlay in my experience.
It’s GMs bet to lose here. I would immediately pass on a vehicle without CarPlay. My old Toyota had a horrible interface and I was quoted $300 just to update the map, not even a new radio, literally just a software update. No thank you.
Now you have an embedded Android device that is never gonna be upgraded for the lifetime of the car.
GM Single handedly keeping aftermarket stereos relevant. I wouldn’t buy a car with this solution.
Android auto upgrades with my devices. It’s the best solution.
I highly doubt an aftermarket unit will work. Today, most units are integrated into the entire car system. Removing the unit from my car would mean losing access to a lot of functionality. I doubt the car would even accept a 3rd party unit. And this is not a Tesla.
You’d be surprised. Check AliExpress. There are aftermarket units built to fit perfectly into every dumb auto fascia they’ve come up with to prevent it. A simple harness adapted is usually sufficient to restore steering wheel controls etc.
I’ve heard of a couple of vehicles where you simply cannot replace the media centre because it doubles as climate control input etc but the simple answer is: refuse to buy those vehicles.
I know all that, the point is modern infotainments do way more than just play music. Look, I wish it was different, but most cars built today have controls in the infotainment that you can’t have anywhere else. Like very specific settings for interior and exterior lighting, consumption metrics, creature comforts, just to name a few. That’s not a simple case of getting the wires correctly installed like it was before. And good luck finding just the right car with a dumb head unit, even simple cars today are fitted with this stuff.
It‘d have to be tailored to that car, but that’s all just CANBus and software.
Cars have built in cell radios and can do ota updates.
They aren’t going to replace the hardware, though.
So do cell phones and tablets
So I’m assuming that means that they’re admitting that they put a safety hazard in all those prior cars and are assuming liability for every accident where infotainment systems may have been involved, right?
I don’t think that’s how it works, and is a pretty toxic and non-constructive way to look at this.
If they’re going to lie to pretend they can’t include it because it’s unsafe when every single person on the planet knows with 100% certainty that it’s because they want their own cash/data hungry alternative instead, then putting said “unsafe” thing in their vehicles should absolutely expose them to liability.
There absolutely is not a theoretical possibility that “safety” was a genuine consideration in any way in this decision.
Yeah because I’m sure GM’s shit will be better. Idek why I’m addressing this:
we all know GM doesn’t want to pay Apple or Google. That this is really about more renting and never owning. They just want more money.GM, just say that. We know you’re a gigantic money-hungry corp. You all don’t have to lie and pretend to care about safety. We’re not a bunch of idiots. We get it, even if you all suck for doing this.
I’d say I hope GM crashes and burns again, but then the government will just bail them out again.
I thought Android auto was free.
This is all about maintaining and selling your data for themselves. There was just a report out last week about how cars are one of the most data insecure devices you can own because of how poorly all the big auto manufacturers treat their customers.
Ah I stand corrected on the Android side. I assumed there was some licensing going on. I’ll correct that.
I believe there is, for Android Automotive.
I read that article too. They know when you’ve been recreating Shakespeares “beast with two backs” in your car. Creepy stuff.
Do you mean Android Auto, or Android Automotive (what’s being used here)?
I assumed/got the impression that the latter cost money to integrators (GM) but I guess I don’t know for sure.
Android Auto is “free” to end-users but is different.
Alas, as long as there is doubt, there are a large number of suckers who are willing to give the benefit of the doubt. We are a bunch of idiots, collectively. That’s why shit like this works.
I doubt it’s about paying Apple or Google, so um much as their ability to extort car owners to pay them. Nobody in their right mind will buy the $10/month Bullshit Subscription ™ from GM when they can just plug in their phone and use Waze.
Edit: seems Apple doesnt charge automakers so it’s definitely about extorting you for money.
Cool, then I’m dropping GM from my list of cars that I’ll buy or rent. CarPlay is a must have in 2023, just like a backup camera. Literally nobody wants your shitty car OS thing, it’s guaranteed to be way worse than iOS and Android.
Seems like this ought to be a dealbreaker for many.
GM was never on the list anyway, i’ve tried a couple ones and i was always surprised how much money they want for their cheap ass interior
Oh, did GM just step in it this time. Being stupid and removing important features is one thing, but straight-up defamation like this is another.
Google and Apple’s lawyers must be salivating a river right now.
“It’s unsafe for Apple and Android to prevent us from monopolizing your user data!”
They are doing it to light up revenue streams.
literally any change or a new feature in any product of any company is only about collecting and selling your data, and never about making something actually better.
Yep beware, any time a company you do business with sends you a letter saying something like,
“Good news! (Our old company name) is now (new company name)!”
You’re about to get fucked.
You know what’s unsafe? Putting a long-ass disclosure about keeping your eyes on the road that you have to close before you can use your infotainment center. We know how to drive, dude. Adding a distraction doesn’t improve safety, it makes it worse.
Let’s be honest, GM can’t make money off owners using this software. They can make their own and have owners pay a subscription like some Tesla owners do now.
They’re going about this all wrong.
Apple car is not the issue. It’s all the other touch inputs that I have on my car to control every basic function like the climate controls and other shit.
Apple car switches on, already the navigation is setup and the music is on… I don’t need to touch it again. I can switch songs on my steering wheel and I can ask Siri for basic shit like finding a playlist.
I don’t need to go through a touch menu or button to change the temperature or any other action setting while in motion.
in fact, much of CarPlay’s functionality becomes locked while the car is in motion, making that a moot point anyway, lol. the only things left to distract or endanger would be the OEM stuff, as you mention.
The one unsafe thing in car play for me is the tiny stupid UI element needed to switch betweeen voice directions/alerts only/silent/.
I will quite often want to switch modes while on a long journey - full directions while driving on backstreets, alerts only while on motorways.
Have yet to find the Siri command to switch between them. Anyone know of one?
i don’t use it enough to know, but i think the UI varies a little between vehicles and models, so it may not be in the same spot for everyone-- or even look exactly the same.
as for a Siri command, you may try something like, “Set my notifications to…” or something like that.
I mostly use Waze for navigation. And the alerts button setting is pretty small. However I find that just having it on alerts is enough for day to day use.
It’s true that for new routes I do enable the full guided voice assist
My car is a 2017 and its entertainment system hasn’t been update since then. I don’t want to pay the $250 to upgrade it or whatever the crazy price was.
My personal car (the second, mostly unused car in our family) is from 2016, and it has nav and everything, but it looks like it’s a commodore. It’s also woefully out of date, my house is in the middle of a cornfield according to my car. Literally unusable, and was pretty much right out of the gates even. Doesn’t work very well with my phone, I’m still able to stream Spotify and skip songs or whatever, but guess how I have to control it? The phone hooked to the cord and sitting on my seat.
My wife’s car, I don’t even think I’ve ever used the navigation. I’m not even really sure how her radio works come to think of it, because it just switches to Android Auto when I start it, and whatever I was doing on my phone, well it’s right there. Spotify starts up, and on the way we go. Don’t even look at it most of the time, if I’m being honest. Super unsafe for sure, the proprietary solution is for sure better (/s)