In the end, the KIA car company made its cars into subscription models, I really hate this because in the end the car we buy with our own money doesn’t feel like it belongs to us.
Should we finally buy an old school car ? so as not to be affected by this subscription models or is there a way to crack the software installed in it ?
Worth noting that these features appear to require your car to be connected to a cellular network. This isn’t the same as BMW charging a fee for heated seats.
They could have just put a SIM card in your car and required you to pay your cell phone provider for a connection.
You don’t need a cellular connection for long range, low bandwidth communication. There are networks such as Lora that don’t require a paid subscription to use.
That’s not what this is though. I have a Hyundai Tuscan that is always connected to a cellular network.
I can always connect with the car with my phone if both the car and phone have internet access. It’s also how the “find my car” feature works. And also I believe software updates (OS and maps).
I meant that they don’t have to use a cellular connection, they could use something else if they wished. LoRa is a two way data connection designed for low bandwidth, long distance. Range can be anywhere from 3-10 miles depending on obstructions/obstacles. There are other similar protocols out there.
That’s farther than a cell phone. A cell phone might get 3 miles maybe more if you have the high ground. It’s a lower frequency and therefore has a longer range. There are both public and private gateways for LoRa. So you can use it even if you don’t own or operate a gateway.
I have something similar for my Subaru but it’s only 4 dollars a month.
It’s a fee I gladly pay to be able to start my car and set the interior climate from my phone. I imagine there’s some cost the access a network to have that functionality and I don’t see a problem paying for it.
The old style that started from a key fob required you to be a lot closer to the vehicle to start it. Right now I start it a few minutes before I leave my building a quarter of a mile away. I could start it from a different country if I wanted to. Needing to be within a few hundred feet would be pretty useless to me.
This is free elsewhere. The fact that you’re okay paying monthly for remote start is hilarious and sad. Probably don’t tell people you’re okay with this.
The tesla app does an INSANE amount of shit no other vehicle app does and its free. But you want to pay monthly to turn your car on 😆
Very personal opinion of mine, I hate subscription crap. However, I have to agree that, based on what you say, Subaru’s cost is much easier to digest than Hyundai/Kia POS.
What about when a security vulnerability is discovered and your car can be started and unlocked by someone else? That’s one of my concerns with smart features from companies that aren’t primarily tech companies
Congrats on the new Subaru. I also happily paid for the app using the introduction 3 year plan. Hit me up when you hit year 4 and see the REAL price tag they charge.
There is not one single new car on the market that I would take possession of if you gave it to me for free. I like having a manual transmission and a radio with buttons.
It’s the nature of time that the old ways must give in. Automatics outperform manual at every level, and most people would rather drive an automatic than a manual. Even here in Europe, where manuals have been the “default” forever.
If people were only buying manuals, there wouldn’t be a push to put automatics everywhere, especially sports cars. More than 50% of cars in Europe are now automatic. Only 3% of new cars are manual. The old meets the new, and the people chose the new thing. That’s usually what happens. The age of the manual transmission comes to an end.
My dad was driving automatic Jags back in the late 1970s, but he did work in the motor trade. I am seeing more and more automatics around but I still think manual is king (at least in the UK) for the time being. If nothing else, you can save some fuel driving an auto!
I’d rephrase that. If you give me a new car for free, of course I’m taking it!
BUT
Buying a new car, right now, as somone who’s actively looking and keeping up with the market… There really aren’t good cars for a reasonable price. A lot of new cars have been enshitified.
As much as I’d like to drive 90s shitboxes for the rest of my life, the cynic in me thinks we’ll see something like cash for clunkers on a global scale. It’s only a matter of time before the supply runs dry and parts become nearly impossible to find at a reasonable price
Just buy used and modify yourself with the tech you want. Send a message that this shit is unacceptable and we are willing to live in a less technologically enhanced world if it means no subscriptions. We keep buying it, they will continue to think this is how you “extract profit” from consumers.
No because this is only for connected services. All of those features work without any cost with the included remote. OP is expecting connected services for free for the life of the vehicle.
The Tesla works just fine without the app on your phone? You get a card that works as a key and don’t need a phone at all.
I’m assuming opening the car remotely means when you’re not near the car ( e.g.: at the office while that car is at home ). The touchscreen function isn’t nearly as horrible as you make it out to be, while I do agree a physical button is more practical in some cases.
Hyundai/Kia have also had their fair share of recent car troubles with recalls because they spontaneously catch fire wether you’re driving them or not.
Having said that I don’t really have an opinion on the brands. I know some people who drive it around and they all seem quite satisfied with the car. I’m sure they’re great cars :)
The jab @kia was only in jest. There are other brands who want to use subscriptions for things like seat heating, … Which I find a fecking awful evolution ( I’m looking at you bmw ).
IIRC you can also control it with the steering wheel without using the touch display as well.
If you press the button on the handle to trigger the wipers once. It will also bring up the menu on the screen ( bottom left ). You can then use the right wheel button on your steering wheel by pushing it left or right to move between off and auto with all the different speeds in between ( slower being near off and fast being near automatic ).
Source: I had a Tesla company car. Some things worked well. Other times the car felt quite cheap for being that expensive ( mainly interior and finishing ). The car paint seemed a lot thinner compared to European cars too. ( Company cars are common where I live, I’m not a rich big ass CEO )
Alternatively you can use the voice control as well apparently. I’ve only used the voice to initiate calls though
For the price of car it’s kinda cheap at first but the longer you used it became more & more expensive it was before you realize it
Imagine this scenario you bought the car for 100K + you pay for subscription for the car annually for 10$ + you had to pay for it’s maintenance at mechanic (things get broken the longer you used, you need to replace the broken part as soon as possible) + you had to pay your electricity or gasoline bills for fuel that car you used + emergency bills like towing the car, etc
Ive had a “subscription” for roadside assistance through my auto insurance company for years. It’s like $2 a month, and I’ve used it 7 or 8 times for keys locked in, or flat tire, etc. it’s awesome.
Don’t think about the one actual subscription service here. Think about all of the features that are technologically built into the car that you can’t access without paying a subscription fee.
The options I see on this screenshot seem to be options that need a data connection to work, so I can understand a subscription for that. There is no free Internet mobile connection afterall. The monthly payment option is expensive for sure but the annual option is not too bad.
Except they all have terrible privacy policies and sell all your data already. They make more than enough from that and even if you don’t pay for subscriptions they are paying for data to listen to your conversation and track your location to sell it. The data usage for subscriptions are also probably very small compared to all of the other crap.
Time to begin the era of the DYI automobile. Buy a number of ~30v, high amperage batteries, an electric motor, jury rig the thing to a drivetrain and presto!
What happens when the car becomes too old and they decide to drop that version of the API the car is talking with? Huh? That’s another problem with these with “critical service but it can only go through us”, when they change their mind you get fucked.
I bought a 2021 VW GLI, it has a software component called Car-net that has literally never worked. I don’t even know what it’s supposed to do. The little I’ve found is that it’s supposed to have an app remote start and maybe a few other features, but according tk carnet, my car is still dealer owned. There have been at least six contacts to the car net folks from the dealer about the issue. I have a remote start on my FOB so whatever, but the car software support issue is so real. 🤷🏼♂️
I had to contact the dealer to have them activate the eSIM in the car and register an account their site via the app. (Pretty standard stuff)
And yes it’s a subscription like this for locating the car, updating navdata online and remote heating + charging info. (It’s a hybrid)
Well… I say “just fine” their app is slow and unstable. But everything worked nicely with an unofficial home assistant integration. And when VW moved everything over to their new app, it continued to work on my old car, and it took the HA community about a week to sort most of the new API out.
It’s not perfect, but it does technically work, even on their older models. I can still download and install updated maps on it too for the onboard nav. (Though i usually just use Android auto…)
Even if you decided not to find out how to get it working, doesn’t mean it’s abandoned.
All that being said this is one of many genuine reasons to be concerned about this trend. And a good reason for people that write about and review cars to care about the software in the cars, the support you can expect, and the companys track record when it comes to supporting older models.
And like others have stated. The BMW example with the heated seats is just… rotten.
I’ve had regular software issues like this in the past and it’s such a pain to deal with and fix. Even going through customer support is painful, because it’s not supposed to be this way so it’s more than likely because of this the customer support experience will be long and you’ll go through more people. And I don’t want to even imagine how it is to have to deal with these issues on critical software and devices and to not get priority support. You feel powerless and broken.
Because you actually believe you didn’t already paid for about 5 years of the service when you paid for the car?
Human stupidity and laziness is the accurate reason for manufacturers doing this.
It would be reasonable if what that app did was anything that actually needed internet servers to work. Why not just pair up the phone with the car, ad-hoc like you could with a PSP, or any sort of peer-to-peer between car-phone, and call it a day? Oh, right, because then you can’t create a service you can charge monthly for.
That people are willing to pay for effectively a remote temperature control and shutdown timer, that does not need to be an internet service to work properly, can and should be dunked on.
It’s for office workers or inner city dwellers in cold regions. They can start their car which is in the parking garage blocks away. It makes sense and it costs money to run.
Theres nothing wrong at all with this. At all. Image is FUD
When you buy the car, you also pay for that integrated, albeit disable, service. To enable it you have to pay a subscription.
I agree with the OP. This should never be the case.
Now, the culprit is not the car manufacturer, but the people that pay for it. If nobody, or aven few people, paid for this, they wouldn’t have a business for that and they would likely stop.
Bottom line is, you don’t like it? Give your money to another brand.
Something like the XBUS seems like a good choice. They seem to focus on the important and practical stuff, and I can’t find any information about any sort of related subscription.
Imagine your car need an updates or you don’t paying subscription fee or but the server are offline & you’re in emergency situation, and the worst of it your car won’t start without it
OMG… that’s scarred me the hell out of it
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Worth noting that these features appear to require your car to be connected to a cellular network. This isn’t the same as BMW charging a fee for heated seats.
They could have just put a SIM card in your car and required you to pay your cell phone provider for a connection.
You don’t need a cellular connection for long range, low bandwidth communication. There are networks such as Lora that don’t require a paid subscription to use.
That’s not what this is though. I have a Hyundai Tuscan that is always connected to a cellular network.
I can always connect with the car with my phone if both the car and phone have internet access. It’s also how the “find my car” feature works. And also I believe software updates (OS and maps).
I meant that they don’t have to use a cellular connection, they could use something else if they wished. LoRa is a two way data connection designed for low bandwidth, long distance. Range can be anywhere from 3-10 miles depending on obstructions/obstacles. There are other similar protocols out there.
3-10 miles is nothing though. With a cell phone connection your car can be anywhere a cell tower is and you can connect with it.
That’s farther than a cell phone. A cell phone might get 3 miles maybe more if you have the high ground. It’s a lower frequency and therefore has a longer range. There are both public and private gateways for LoRa. So you can use it even if you don’t own or operate a gateway.
Maybe you misunderstood me. My car can be in New York City and I’m in Los Angeles and I can check it’s location and lock/unlock the doors
You could do the same thing without using a cell network.
I have something similar for my Subaru but it’s only 4 dollars a month.
It’s a fee I gladly pay to be able to start my car and set the interior climate from my phone. I imagine there’s some cost the access a network to have that functionality and I don’t see a problem paying for it.
The old style that started from a key fob required you to be a lot closer to the vehicle to start it. Right now I start it a few minutes before I leave my building a quarter of a mile away. I could start it from a different country if I wanted to. Needing to be within a few hundred feet would be pretty useless to me.
Yea… You are part of the damn problem
Are they? These services do require money to run, and the pricing seems very reasonable
You have already pay for it. Soon “cant turn Air on if you dont pay 1dll a month”
Yea, maybe like 4 cents a month lol it’s nowhere near 4 dollars a month to handle a hundred lightweight API calls
Same for me. I have the blue link with Hyundai. It’s free for 3 years, then a reasonable amount after that.
This is free elsewhere. The fact that you’re okay paying monthly for remote start is hilarious and sad. Probably don’t tell people you’re okay with this.
The tesla app does an INSANE amount of shit no other vehicle app does and its free. But you want to pay monthly to turn your car on 😆
Yeah but you need to use a Tesla.
Except it’s a Tesla.
It’s like the Mr. Garrison’s dildo mono-wheel “it” vehicle, it’s fucking you in the ass!
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I think op just doesn’t understand what the subscription is for.
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Very personal opinion of mine, I hate subscription crap. However, I have to agree that, based on what you say, Subaru’s cost is much easier to digest than Hyundai/Kia POS.
What about when a security vulnerability is discovered and your car can be started and unlocked by someone else? That’s one of my concerns with smart features from companies that aren’t primarily tech companies
Congrats on the new Subaru. I also happily paid for the app using the introduction 3 year plan. Hit me up when you hit year 4 and see the REAL price tag they charge.
There is not one single new car on the market that I would take possession of if you gave it to me for free. I like having a manual transmission and a radio with buttons.
Yeah I don’t like automatic either, and have an aversion towards anything that needs a touchscreen to operate.
It’s the nature of time that the old ways must give in. Automatics outperform manual at every level, and most people would rather drive an automatic than a manual. Even here in Europe, where manuals have been the “default” forever.
What? Most people buy manuals here in Europe. And automatic are available… Tho, with the rise of electric cars, both manual and automatic get obsolete
If people were only buying manuals, there wouldn’t be a push to put automatics everywhere, especially sports cars. More than 50% of cars in Europe are now automatic. Only 3% of new cars are manual. The old meets the new, and the people chose the new thing. That’s usually what happens. The age of the manual transmission comes to an end.
Source? And automatic is not ‘new’
It is new in Europe.
https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/automatic-trends-in-europe-automatic-transmissions-on-the-rise/#:~:text=There was significant growth in,approximately 44 percent in 2019.
This for instance.
Ok, I accept your source and facts, but it will decrease in the next 15 years because of the rise of electric cars anyways.
My dad was driving automatic Jags back in the late 1970s, but he did work in the motor trade. I am seeing more and more automatics around but I still think manual is king (at least in the UK) for the time being. If nothing else, you can save some fuel driving an auto!
I’d rephrase that. If you give me a new car for free, of course I’m taking it!
BUT
Buying a new car, right now, as somone who’s actively looking and keeping up with the market… There really aren’t good cars for a reasonable price. A lot of new cars have been enshitified.
I don’t even have a licence. I’d take it. Those gave pretty okay resale value. ^_-
As much as I’d like to drive 90s shitboxes for the rest of my life, the cynic in me thinks we’ll see something like cash for clunkers on a global scale. It’s only a matter of time before the supply runs dry and parts become nearly impossible to find at a reasonable price
Just buy used and modify yourself with the tech you want. Send a message that this shit is unacceptable and we are willing to live in a less technologically enhanced world if it means no subscriptions. We keep buying it, they will continue to think this is how you “extract profit” from consumers.
anyone who buys shit like this is an idiot and deserves suburban life depression
That also means the car gets a lot cheaper because of the recurring subscription model right? Right?
I wonder how they’re planning on competing to Tesla like this. They basically give all these things for free in their app/car.
( Not to Tesla fanboy or anything ). But if you can pick between a car that gives you all this stuff compared to one that charges you monthly for it…
Even though putting money in Elon’s pocket is something I’d rather avoid
No because this is only for connected services. All of those features work without any cost with the included remote. OP is expecting connected services for free for the life of the vehicle.
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The Tesla works just fine without the app on your phone? You get a card that works as a key and don’t need a phone at all.
I’m assuming opening the car remotely means when you’re not near the car ( e.g.: at the office while that car is at home ). The touchscreen function isn’t nearly as horrible as you make it out to be, while I do agree a physical button is more practical in some cases.
Hyundai/Kia have also had their fair share of recent car troubles with recalls because they spontaneously catch fire wether you’re driving them or not.
Having said that I don’t really have an opinion on the brands. I know some people who drive it around and they all seem quite satisfied with the car. I’m sure they’re great cars :)
The jab @kia was only in jest. There are other brands who want to use subscriptions for things like seat heating, … Which I find a fecking awful evolution ( I’m looking at you bmw ).
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IIRC you can also control it with the steering wheel without using the touch display as well.
If you press the button on the handle to trigger the wipers once. It will also bring up the menu on the screen ( bottom left ). You can then use the right wheel button on your steering wheel by pushing it left or right to move between off and auto with all the different speeds in between ( slower being near off and fast being near automatic ).
Source: I had a Tesla company car. Some things worked well. Other times the car felt quite cheap for being that expensive ( mainly interior and finishing ). The car paint seemed a lot thinner compared to European cars too. ( Company cars are common where I live, I’m not a rich big ass CEO )
Alternatively you can use the voice control as well apparently. I’ve only used the voice to initiate calls though
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For the price of car it’s kinda cheap at first but the longer you used it became more & more expensive it was before you realize it
Imagine this scenario you bought the car for 100K + you pay for subscription for the car annually for 10$ + you had to pay for it’s maintenance at mechanic (things get broken the longer you used, you need to replace the broken part as soon as possible) + you had to pay your electricity or gasoline bills for fuel that car you used + emergency bills like towing the car, etc
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Roadside assistance doesn’t even make sense as a subscription. And, for that price, none of them do.
Ive had a “subscription” for roadside assistance through my auto insurance company for years. It’s like $2 a month, and I’ve used it 7 or 8 times for keys locked in, or flat tire, etc. it’s awesome.
Just need some bigger 3d printers.
Well I’ve seen company that make boat from huge 3d printer, maybe if we can get our hands at that technology level I think it’ll work
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Don’t think about the one actual subscription service here. Think about all of the features that are technologically built into the car that you can’t access without paying a subscription fee.
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The options I see on this screenshot seem to be options that need a data connection to work, so I can understand a subscription for that. There is no free Internet mobile connection afterall. The monthly payment option is expensive for sure but the annual option is not too bad.
Except they all have terrible privacy policies and sell all your data already. They make more than enough from that and even if you don’t pay for subscriptions they are paying for data to listen to your conversation and track your location to sell it. The data usage for subscriptions are also probably very small compared to all of the other crap.
You got a good point.
Time to begin the era of the DYI automobile. Buy a number of ~30v, high amperage batteries, an electric motor, jury rig the thing to a drivetrain and presto!
Someone at my country modified old toyota Corolla to became electric car, it’s used many 18650 batteries for powering
Lmao imagine when it get vanced to work without subscription.
What happens when the car becomes too old and they decide to drop that version of the API the car is talking with? Huh? That’s another problem with these with “critical service but it can only go through us”, when they change their mind you get fucked.
I guess you can stop paying your subscription.
I bought a 2021 VW GLI, it has a software component called Car-net that has literally never worked. I don’t even know what it’s supposed to do. The little I’ve found is that it’s supposed to have an app remote start and maybe a few other features, but according tk carnet, my car is still dealer owned. There have been at least six contacts to the car net folks from the dealer about the issue. I have a remote start on my FOB so whatever, but the car software support issue is so real. 🤷🏼♂️
I have a 2018 Passat car net works just fine.
I had to contact the dealer to have them activate the eSIM in the car and register an account their site via the app. (Pretty standard stuff)
And yes it’s a subscription like this for locating the car, updating navdata online and remote heating + charging info. (It’s a hybrid)
Well… I say “just fine” their app is slow and unstable. But everything worked nicely with an unofficial home assistant integration. And when VW moved everything over to their new app, it continued to work on my old car, and it took the HA community about a week to sort most of the new API out.
It’s not perfect, but it does technically work, even on their older models. I can still download and install updated maps on it too for the onboard nav. (Though i usually just use Android auto…)
Even if you decided not to find out how to get it working, doesn’t mean it’s abandoned.
All that being said this is one of many genuine reasons to be concerned about this trend. And a good reason for people that write about and review cars to care about the software in the cars, the support you can expect, and the companys track record when it comes to supporting older models.
And like others have stated. The BMW example with the heated seats is just… rotten.
I’ve had regular software issues like this in the past and it’s such a pain to deal with and fix. Even going through customer support is painful, because it’s not supposed to be this way so it’s more than likely because of this the customer support experience will be long and you’ll go through more people. And I don’t want to even imagine how it is to have to deal with these issues on critical software and devices and to not get priority support. You feel powerless and broken.
The only problem with services as a subscription is THE FUCKING IDIOTS THAT PAY FOR THEM
If nobody fell for shit like that, manufacturers would drop it like boiling diarrhea
This is where capitalism is failing because people are dumb 🤷
Fixed. It thrives on human stupidity and laziness
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Because you actually believe you didn’t already paid for about 5 years of the service when you paid for the car? Human stupidity and laziness is the accurate reason for manufacturers doing this.
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=Z6UaZSZAOA4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It would be reasonable if what that app did was anything that actually needed internet servers to work. Why not just pair up the phone with the car, ad-hoc like you could with a PSP, or any sort of peer-to-peer between car-phone, and call it a day? Oh, right, because then you can’t create a service you can charge monthly for.
That people are willing to pay for effectively a remote temperature control and shutdown timer, that does not need to be an internet service to work properly, can and should be dunked on.
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It’s for office workers or inner city dwellers in cold regions. They can start their car which is in the parking garage blocks away. It makes sense and it costs money to run.
Theres nothing wrong at all with this. At all. Image is FUD
deleted by creator
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=Z6UaZSZAOA4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
When you buy the car, you also pay for that integrated, albeit disable, service. To enable it you have to pay a subscription. I agree with the OP. This should never be the case. Now, the culprit is not the car manufacturer, but the people that pay for it. If nobody, or aven few people, paid for this, they wouldn’t have a business for that and they would likely stop. Bottom line is, you don’t like it? Give your money to another brand.
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Until they take that away from the fobs
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I’ll take that bet in the next ~10 years.
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Finally someone who gets it
Glad to see you here my fellow comrades
This is true.
Go and buy a car from a manufacturer who doesn’t insist on subscriptions… whilst you still can!
Something like the XBUS seems like a good choice. They seem to focus on the important and practical stuff, and I can’t find any information about any sort of related subscription.
And then you can’t use it when the temp is 0F because they decide to do some maintenance
I do find that the days I need it the most it’s slower than molasses.
Imagine your car need an updates or you don’t paying subscription fee or but the server are offline & you’re in emergency situation, and the worst of it your car won’t start without it OMG… that’s scarred me the hell out of it
My spouse was just telling me about someone who got stuck waiting for an hour because their car decided to unexpectedly do an update
Fuck sakes. Those features were free on my 2020 Telluride.