Milk is sold in bags in Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes, but it could be approaching its expiry date. Part of the reason is changing consumer habits.
“Consumption of milk per capita has gone down every year over the last 30 years,” says Sylvain Charlebois, director of the Agri-Food Analytics Lab at Dalhousie University. “Actually, it’s gone down by more than 20 per cent since 2015.”
While bagged milk is often cited as a unique Canadianism, it’s actually not sold west of Ontario. Those who prefer it, however, say it’s more cost efficient and some even believe it tastes better.
The plastic feels a bit like a heavy duty ziplock bag, or piping bag material, made as a tube (so strong shape, structurally) then flat sealed on both ends. Quite thick so not that easy to puncture by accident. Once in a while there’s one that leaks but they get removed at the grocery store by stockers, mostly. It’s easy to spot, it just looks flat and at worst (if the hole is on the bottom), there’s a liter and some of milk all over in their fridge.
Stores sell sturdy plastic jugs that the milk bags fit into snugly, so it basically pours like a pitcher. You just snip a small corner off the top of the bag once it’s inserted into The jug. The jug lasts forever, though it does get funky over time with any dribbles of milk that make it between the bag and jug.
It happens, but not very often. I used to work dairy in a grocery store, so you’d see it, fairly often, but usually we the workers would catch it (because the bag would be leaking).
I’ve never seen a bag pop, or puncture outside of that.
bagged milk is a pretty wild concept to me, but obviously there are a lot of facets of american life that are fucking bonkers to everyone else (and lots of us) so I cant really speak to it
I grew up with bagged milk but don’t have it where I live now. With my two kids and I enjoying breakfast cereal regularly, our recycling bin fills up fast. I miss milk bags. So low waste. I remember we’d slit the end and use them for sandwich bags in our lunch bags. Or use them to wrap blocks of cheese.
I swear I remember my mum freezing sealed bags of milk for the cooler to keep meat cold on the way to the cabin.
It’s funny we have no issues drinking milk from many animals, but people would be grossed out knowing it’s milk from a human breast, and wouldn’t drink it.
What I’m wondering is, we have made strides to synthetically make milk with the use of yeast to make the proteins. So theoretically, we could make any milk. Why are we making cows milk this way?
You’d need a creamer nozzle (like used for Guinness Draft) and a very cold line chiller, but it just might work. Kegging the milk would be the hard part, but it could be done.
I mean there’s the wasted cost of feeding extra cows, processing excess milk, and probably throwing out that percentage that is not being drank as well. Let’s see if/how prices accommodate the change.
Yes, the plastic is quite thin and requires less power to recycle than the waxed cardboard or thick plastic jugs, if your recycling ends up recycled at all.
Thank you, good read! I just remember finding out a while ago that it was better than the environment (and it does make sense given how little plastic is used), but couldn’t find the source again.
With this new information, will consumers swing over to milk bags? Bagged milk is sold only in four-litre allotments in Canada, which may be too much for some consumers, leading to unconsumed or spoiled milk. This would wipe out any environmental benefits.
Precisely my concern above hahah, I don’t see why they can’t be sold individually with a little stamp on them stating the brand, the quantity and the percentage. We don’t really drink milk, we only use it for cooking and hot beverages.
In Canada the energy costs are less important than the plastic waste as the majority of our electricity comes from hydro or nuclear.
And the plastic IS waste, “recycled” plastic can only make up a tiny faction of newly manufacture products and most waste is rejected anyway because it’s not “clean” plastic.
It’s worth remembering that being accepted in a blue bag and actually being recycled are two very different things. Much of the plastic we’ve “recycled” over the years just ended up in landfills in China.
Remember the old “Where does it go?” “Away,” PSAs from the late '80s and early '90s? Well, plastic recycling has been that, but at an industrial scale.
Are these changing consumer habits mostly being driven by how insanely expensive and low quality milk products are becoming? Canadian cheese and butter are trash and cost an arm and a leg - especially when you get into goat and sheep cheeses that a lot of lactose intolerant west coasters prefer.
Is milk somehow not a milk product? I think my point stands for milk products in general - goat milk is insanely expensive in Canada and it’s not significantly more expensive to produce than cow’s milk.
There are probably some slight differences between milk used for further processing and milk sold directly to consumers but it’s of a very similar quality. A lot of cheese in Canada is made from third party milk rather than milk produced on premises.
You can make the argument that the quality of milk in general is dropping, and that’s reflected in the quality of milk products. But to say that poor quality of milk products themselves are driving the decrease in milk consumption? I don’t see how the logic follows.
Why are you getting down voted so much? You are absolutely right. Canadian milk products (including milk) are complete garbage. We can thank our milk cartels for that, plus the really stupid regulations put into place over concerns of germs that basically limits the amount of raw or non-homogenized milk on the market.
How come most of Europe can produce far superior tasting cheeses and also consume fresh milk from milk vending machines, but there’s an inane control on it in North America?
As a lactose intolerant west coaster I’m really confused if that’s setting people off. We’ve got a huge Asian population out here and lactose intolerance is much higher among them. Personally, while we’re not of Asian descent both me and my partner are lactose intolerant so finding reasonable dairy products that don’t give us diarrhea is a priority - and we’re not shy of making our own stovetop cheese if all we can get is milk.
Right, the dude used it as a flippant insult as if lactose intolerance is a West Coast fad when in reality there’s lactose intolerance is everywhere and isn’t a fad
It is much easier to raise a goat on a small acreage than it is to farm enough oats to extract a worthwhile amount of oat milk.
Also, haven’t liked any oat milk I’ve tried. To be fair I don’t like goat milk either, but it is much closer to what I’m used to, and would definitely be easier to get used to
There is NextMilk and NotMilk brands., both formulated to be similar to actual milk in texture, and taste. You won’t be “Wow, I can’t believe it’s not milk” But it is surprising close compared to oat, soy, or almond milks
As in your love of actual cow milk, or the oats takes a lot of farming debate? Not Milk is like pineapple juice cabbage juice and other components that somehow come together to work like milk.
There was a local dairy in my hometown and they had a little shack set up on the road where you could buy bottles of milk. It was the best milk I’ve ever drunk in my life.
There’s a dairy in my city that’s really taking off in recent years with the same glass approach too. A lot of restaurants, cafes, etc all using their stuff now and if their social media following is any indication then a fair bit of regular consumers too. I like to remain optimistic that stuff like this continues to inspire more sustainable, local food and beverage companies.
Used to live across the border in Southern BC. Had access to a glass-bottled, “cream-top” (non-homogenized) milk from a local dairy. Fridge life was in-line with regular jugs. Plus, it tasted better and was likely healthier ([EDIT: have not found verification for this at this time] homogenized milk contains fat globules small enough to directly absorb into the bloodstream without digestion, possibly contributing to heart disease).
Have been looking for a reputable source on that - busy on work projects. Might be something that has been shown to be bunk at this point. I did, however, find a few recent interesting papers characterizing the physical structural changes that occur with homogenization. IIRC, the average globule size gets reduced to ~1μm in diameter.
I was thinking the same thing. Fat isn’t water (read:blood) soluble, and I have a hard time imagining any significant amount emulsing into your blood stream
Indeed. It is worth noting that fat globules in dairy aren’t JUST lipid. They are really a mixture of lipids, glycolipids, proteins, and other stuff. The glycolipids and proteins have polar and non-polar parts and organize into a membrane around the non-polar (hydrophobic) lipid fraction, keeping it from precipitating out of solution. Effectively, milk fat globules come with their own emulsifiers.
It seemed on par with jugged/bagged milk as they were pasturizing it.
It tasted much better though more like the milk I remember from the UK as a kid. Not sure if they feed differently or just smaller batches that get to market sooner.
I worry about breakage and substandard cleaning in the coming era of downsized food safety checkers in the Bitcoin Milhouse cabinet, but a few plebes dying from salmonella will fix that spending … almost.
Personally, I stopped buying milk. My daughter has a dairy allergy but I used to buy almond milk for her and dairy milk for myself, but I’ve switched to just almond milk for both of us to reduce my contribution to the beef industry. I’ll still buy some dairy products like cheese and ice cream, but generally am trying to minimize my demand.
Exactly. I’m not sure what metaphor fits best. If there isn’t one, it’s an odd combination of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” and “chicken and the egg”.
They can’t claim there’s no demand for it if it isn’t on the shelves in the first place.
Times change, the customer is always right in matters of taste, etc.
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This isn’t a Canadian specific thing. Its common in most of the world.
But the problem isnt milk, its animal milk. Soy and oat milk should be fine.
I’ve always wondered about the bagged milk… Don’t they get broken a lot? I’m genuinely curious
I’m in my 40s and I can only remember one bag breakingon me, but that’s because my dumb ass dropped it.
I’m also in my 40s and I can remember a lot of busted milk jugs over the years… Maybe we should be using the bags instead lol
My mom busted a 4L jug on the stairs. The cap popped off. It’s never the same after.
They were the jean stairs weren’t they?
That’s why you should always use your hands to carry things!
The plastic feels a bit like a heavy duty ziplock bag, or piping bag material, made as a tube (so strong shape, structurally) then flat sealed on both ends. Quite thick so not that easy to puncture by accident. Once in a while there’s one that leaks but they get removed at the grocery store by stockers, mostly. It’s easy to spot, it just looks flat and at worst (if the hole is on the bottom), there’s a liter and some of milk all over in their fridge.
How do you store it once it is opened? How do you pour it?
Stores sell sturdy plastic jugs that the milk bags fit into snugly, so it basically pours like a pitcher. You just snip a small corner off the top of the bag once it’s inserted into The jug. The jug lasts forever, though it does get funky over time with any dribbles of milk that make it between the bag and jug.
This is foreign to me. I’ve never seen anything like that before.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjwrp3dmj18l11.jpg
Thanks. Someone else described it, but the picture helps. This is a completely different method for milk distribution than we have where I live.
It happens, but not very often. I used to work dairy in a grocery store, so you’d see it, fairly often, but usually we the workers would catch it (because the bag would be leaking).
I’ve never seen a bag pop, or puncture outside of that.
They’re super tough. Never seen one break.
bagged milk is a pretty wild concept to me, but obviously there are a lot of facets of american life that are fucking bonkers to everyone else (and lots of us) so I cant really speak to it
Tastes better 🤣🤣🤣🤣 those micro plastics sure kick up the flavor a few notches!!
Nearly ever milk receptacle except for glass will be sealed with plastic. Microplastics are not a bagged milk specific problem.
Don’t worry, those plastic jugs and plastic lined cardboard boxes are fulfilling your daily microplastic requirements just fine.
I grew up with bagged milk but don’t have it where I live now. With my two kids and I enjoying breakfast cereal regularly, our recycling bin fills up fast. I miss milk bags. So low waste. I remember we’d slit the end and use them for sandwich bags in our lunch bags. Or use them to wrap blocks of cheese.
I swear I remember my mum freezing sealed bags of milk for the cooler to keep meat cold on the way to the cabin.
It’s funny we have no issues drinking milk from many animals, but people would be grossed out knowing it’s milk from a human breast, and wouldn’t drink it.
Edit: changed any to many
Bruh we definitely have issues drinking milk from other animals.
Have you ever seen anyone drink Dog Milk? Cat Milk? Possum Milk? Pangolin Milk? Motherfuckin… Platypus Milk? They all mammals.
Oh yeah hit me with that shot of platypus milk. 🤤
What I’m wondering is, we have made strides to synthetically make milk with the use of yeast to make the proteins. So theoretically, we could make any milk. Why are we making cows milk this way?
Because we have an entire industry of cows that produce so much milk that they must be milked, or they will get sick and die.
I prefer kegged milk myself
Milk on tap? Sign me up!
Ooohh… With a nitro dispense system, yes please.
Don’t make me try this … Carbonated milk was inexplicably revolting but nitrogen may actually work.
You’d need a creamer nozzle (like used for Guinness Draft) and a very cold line chiller, but it just might work. Kegging the milk would be the hard part, but it could be done.
You don’t take your milk with an IV while you sleep? Weirdo!
Instead of buying 4L (they are in 3 bags) of milk for $7, you will need to buy 2x 2L tetrapak at $5 each.
It’s just for money that they are ending bags.
Or dont buy cow pus anymore
I mean there’s the wasted cost of feeding extra cows, processing excess milk, and probably throwing out that percentage that is not being drank as well. Let’s see if/how prices accommodate the change.
I love bagged milk, but I can’t go through THREE FUCKING BAGS as a family of two.
They’re more eco-friendly than the box or the jug, but I guess that goes against the goal of consuming more raw materials.
To repeat: plastic bagged milk is more eco-friendly than cardboard?
Yes, the plastic is quite thin and requires less power to recycle than the waxed cardboard or thick plastic jugs, if your recycling ends up recycled at all.
Big if
I’ll back you up with a source since I just went down this rabbit hole on another comment https://www.dal.ca/news/2021/11/29/milk-jugs--cartons-or-plastic-bags---which-one-is-best-for-the-e.html
Thank you, good read! I just remember finding out a while ago that it was better than the environment (and it does make sense given how little plastic is used), but couldn’t find the source again.
Precisely my concern above hahah, I don’t see why they can’t be sold individually with a little stamp on them stating the brand, the quantity and the percentage. We don’t really drink milk, we only use it for cooking and hot beverages.
In Canada the energy costs are less important than the plastic waste as the majority of our electricity comes from hydro or nuclear.
And the plastic IS waste, “recycled” plastic can only make up a tiny faction of newly manufacture products and most waste is rejected anyway because it’s not “clean” plastic.
Also, the cardboard hasn’t been waxed in years. It’s plastic lined
As a family of 5, we go through it easily in a week.
How is a plastic bag more environmentally friendly than a cardboard carton?
The cost to make and recycle carton cardboard polymers uses more resources than bags. Bags are found to be the most environmentally friendly. https://www.dal.ca/news/2021/11/29/milk-jugs--cartons-or-plastic-bags---which-one-is-best-for-the-e.html
More eco-friendly? Where I am we can’t recycle any of the bags whereas the box and jug we can.
It’s worth remembering that being accepted in a blue bag and actually being recycled are two very different things. Much of the plastic we’ve “recycled” over the years just ended up in landfills in China.
Remember the old “Where does it go?” “Away,” PSAs from the late '80s and early '90s? Well, plastic recycling has been that, but at an industrial scale.
deleted by creator
I wonder how much cost and risk is involved in reintroducing it.
Are these changing consumer habits mostly being driven by how insanely expensive and low quality milk products are becoming? Canadian cheese and butter are trash and cost an arm and a leg - especially when you get into goat and sheep cheeses that a lot of lactose intolerant west coasters prefer.
We’re talking about milk here, not milk products.
Is milk somehow not a milk product? I think my point stands for milk products in general - goat milk is insanely expensive in Canada and it’s not significantly more expensive to produce than cow’s milk.
How is the quality of cheese relevant to the sale of bagged milk?
You’re not making cheese with dirt and flowers.
Nor are most people making cheese with bagged milk from the grocery stores.
There are probably some slight differences between milk used for further processing and milk sold directly to consumers but it’s of a very similar quality. A lot of cheese in Canada is made from third party milk rather than milk produced on premises.
You can make the argument that the quality of milk in general is dropping, and that’s reflected in the quality of milk products. But to say that poor quality of milk products themselves are driving the decrease in milk consumption? I don’t see how the logic follows.
Do you usually make the cheeses you buy in the grocery store?
Your argument makes no sense.
I don’t. That’s my point.
Having had the cheese available in America, I have to say better grasses makes better cheese.
I refute your assessment of Canadian cheese, my good man, and I shall be available by the flagpole after recess. It’s a duel.
Oh we’re definitely better than America but we should be able to match up against Europe.
Have you ever tried Beacher’s cheese? You should try some good quality cheese before dismissing all American made cheese.
I’ve actually had some splendid American cheese but it’s quite the rarity. Grafton is a solid brand and some of their aged cheddars are amazing.
Source on Canadian cheese being better.
Why are you getting down voted so much? You are absolutely right. Canadian milk products (including milk) are complete garbage. We can thank our milk cartels for that, plus the really stupid regulations put into place over concerns of germs that basically limits the amount of raw or non-homogenized milk on the market.
How come most of Europe can produce far superior tasting cheeses and also consume fresh milk from milk vending machines, but there’s an inane control on it in North America?
“lactose intolerant West coasters”
Checks out, I’m from the west coast and I’m intolerant of lactose products of poor quality.
But fuck thoese milk drinkers back east.
As a lactose intolerant west coaster I’m really confused if that’s setting people off. We’ve got a huge Asian population out here and lactose intolerance is much higher among them. Personally, while we’re not of Asian descent both me and my partner are lactose intolerant so finding reasonable dairy products that don’t give us diarrhea is a priority - and we’re not shy of making our own stovetop cheese if all we can get is milk.
Right, the dude used it as a flippant insult as if lactose intolerance is a West Coast fad when in reality there’s lactose intolerance is everywhere and isn’t a fad
Shit bro getting downvoted by the dairy industry 😂
With all the news about microplastics maybe we should go back to glass bottles.
Cardboard cartons are compostable.
Cardboard cartons are lined with plastic.
I dont think any liquids are sold in cardboard. It woukd leak. Usually its lined with plastic, so no longer compostable.
But glass cab be reused.
What about cardboard lined with natural wax?
No no, cardboard lined with glass 🤣
I don’t think cardboard recycling can tolerate anything like that
No, but it would be compostable. And renewables depending on the wax source (eg soy)
It could happen. It seems to be working for Farm Boy.
Glass’s issue is transportation cost, so you’ll want to make milk supply more local…wait a minute, this is starting to sound like commie shit
Got `em
Fuck it let’s make our own milk at this point
I’ve got nipples, focker
Pretty easy & cheap. Just need oats, water, a blender, and a screen
And an oat field, and equipment to harvest them
My wife says no cows, because apparently I underestimate the amount of milk a cow makes. I’m gonna have to get used to goat milk
Or just oats?
It is much easier to raise a goat on a small acreage than it is to farm enough oats to extract a worthwhile amount of oat milk.
Also, haven’t liked any oat milk I’ve tried. To be fair I don’t like goat milk either, but it is much closer to what I’m used to, and would definitely be easier to get used to
There is NextMilk and NotMilk brands., both formulated to be similar to actual milk in texture, and taste. You won’t be “Wow, I can’t believe it’s not milk” But it is surprising close compared to oat, soy, or almond milks
That doesn’t exactly help
As in your love of actual cow milk, or the oats takes a lot of farming debate? Not Milk is like pineapple juice cabbage juice and other components that somehow come together to work like milk.
Oats take a lot of space and equipment to farm, and any brand name anything doesn’t help; the idea here was self-sufficiency
They make mini cows.
How do you think they make those little quarts of milk?
Then how do they make chocolate milk?
Black cows?
There was a local dairy in my hometown and they had a little shack set up on the road where you could buy bottles of milk. It was the best milk I’ve ever drunk in my life.
There’s a dairy in my city that’s really taking off in recent years with the same glass approach too. A lot of restaurants, cafes, etc all using their stuff now and if their social media following is any indication then a fair bit of regular consumers too. I like to remain optimistic that stuff like this continues to inspire more sustainable, local food and beverage companies.
We have glass bottle milk in vancouver area. $1-$2 deposit on the bottle, good incentive to return it when you get your new bottle.
I don’t know if I can sarcastically say ‘sounds like commie shit’ any harder before it would sound like I’m actually against it
That does sound fantastic. How’s the shelf(/fridge) life of the milk?
Used to live across the border in Southern BC. Had access to a glass-bottled, “cream-top” (non-homogenized) milk from a local dairy. Fridge life was in-line with regular jugs. Plus, it tasted better and was likely healthier ([EDIT: have not found verification for this at this time] homogenized milk contains fat globules small enough to directly absorb into the bloodstream without digestion, possibly contributing to heart disease).
Do you have a source for the fat molecules bit? That is a wild assertion, crazy if true. But I’m pretty sure fat doesn’t work like that.
Have been looking for a reputable source on that - busy on work projects. Might be something that has been shown to be bunk at this point. I did, however, find a few recent interesting papers characterizing the physical structural changes that occur with homogenization. IIRC, the average globule size gets reduced to ~1μm in diameter.
Okay so it’s false information, that’s what you’re saying.
I was thinking the same thing. Fat isn’t water (read:blood) soluble, and I have a hard time imagining any significant amount emulsing into your blood stream
Indeed. It is worth noting that fat globules in dairy aren’t JUST lipid. They are really a mixture of lipids, glycolipids, proteins, and other stuff. The glycolipids and proteins have polar and non-polar parts and organize into a membrane around the non-polar (hydrophobic) lipid fraction, keeping it from precipitating out of solution. Effectively, milk fat globules come with their own emulsifiers.
It seemed on par with jugged/bagged milk as they were pasturizing it. It tasted much better though more like the milk I remember from the UK as a kid. Not sure if they feed differently or just smaller batches that get to market sooner.
I would guess it’s better feed; more grass, less grain
I would absolutely love the glass bottles.
I worry about breakage and substandard cleaning in the coming era of downsized food safety checkers in the Bitcoin Milhouse cabinet, but a few plebes dying from salmonella will fix that spending … almost.
No different than our returnable beer bottles
Is it “changing consumer preferences”, or is it the industry seeing an opportunity for shrinkflation.
This.
Clearly it’s the shrinkflation
Personally, I stopped buying milk. My daughter has a dairy allergy but I used to buy almond milk for her and dairy milk for myself, but I’ve switched to just almond milk for both of us to reduce my contribution to the beef industry. I’ll still buy some dairy products like cheese and ice cream, but generally am trying to minimize my demand.
With all the price gouging happening and shrinkflation, changing consumer habits could spell the end of food.
You could always just eat the rich!
They’re rotten toxic messes, though
So is chemotherapy, but something this malignant merits extreme interventions.
Lemmy comment
Bagged milk was available in MB in the late 80s/early 90s, but it disappeared some time after that.
Exactly. I’m not sure what metaphor fits best. If there isn’t one, it’s an odd combination of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” and “chicken and the egg”.
They can’t claim there’s no demand for it if it isn’t on the shelves in the first place.
Times change, the customer is always right in matters of taste, etc.