This is by far the most fucked up thing I’ve read in a long time. What the fuck is wrong with people? There is no punishment too inhumane for anyone who would do this.
You’re calling someone an unbelievable dumbarse and then immediately using a logical fallacy, who’s the dumbarse here?
An appeal to nature is a pathetic defense. It’s natural to rape and murder too, but obviously we recognise that those are negative things that should be avoided. Why do you think needlessly killing an animal is any different?
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
Plants are living things too, right? So why is it ok to eat them but not animals? Are you saying we should not eat plants too, because it also harm a living thing and we should all just die?
How about any carnivorous animals (which surprise, we are partially) do they need to stop eating meat too?
You misunderstand the ethics of veganism. Vegans aim to reduce suffering. So far, science points to most animals being likely to suffer similarly to how we as humans suffer, since we share evolutionary history and similar biological systems.
Plants do not share these systems, nor have any evolutionary pressure to be able to suffer or feel pain, since they would not be able to do anything about it anyway
It’s not a blanket “living things are sacred”
Furthermore, if you really cared at all about the poor suffering plants, you’d know that the vast vast majority of plants grown by humans are fed inefficiently to animals. So, by going vegan, you’d be hugely reducing the number of plants you are causing harm to
Finally, carnivorous animals have literally nothing to do with veganism. Please stop trying to discredit a movement you don’t even understand
I mean we are a species have deficiencies without supplements if having a full vegan diet, how can you say we don’t need animal products when not using them causes our body problems?
Most farmed plants are used as animal feed, eating plants directly uses much less.
So even if this nonsense argument had any validity veganism would still be the answer.
Humans have the capability to consider the consequences of our actions, other animals don’t.
Lions sometimes eat their kids, should it be okay for humans to do the same because lions do it?
For big slaughter houses etc it is the same. The animals there a tortured on a daily basis. I’m not saying all meat eaters are evil, there are small local farms where animals can live a good life. But the large scale industrial meat (and dairy) production is just this.
Unless the only reason you’re enjoying your beef is because you enjoy thinking about how the animal was suffering to produce it, the two are not the same.
I’m not saying the meat industry isn’t evil, but it’s not torture for the sake of torture. They just don’t give a shit and are only concerned about profits, which is messed up but not the same.
In the meat industry, animal suffering is not the goal. The goal is to deliver as much product (food in this case) to the consumer as cheaply as possible. Animal suffering is a byproduct of this because on a large enough scale, both the consumer and the capitalists running the slaughterhouses are far enough removed from the animals that they don’t have to confront the moral questions of what they’re putting these animals through.
I agree that it’s still a disgusting practice, but it’s not the same thing as deliberately harming animals for your own amusement. In the meat industry, some people can hand-wave those moral concerns away by saying to themselves “at least the animals died for something good: to feed countless families”. Whether you agree with that reasoning or not (which, for the record, I do not), that same person can’t use that excuse in the case of these monkeys. It’s just pointless suffering for the amusement of a handful of psychopaths.
I don’t feel like that’s a fair comparison. Meat consumption has a lot of issues, but the consumer, at the end of the production chain, does not eat his steak with the mindset of “how much more can I make an animal suffer for the lulz, and can we take pliers to it first?”. Mostly, they are apathetic or unaware. (Disclosure: I have reduced meat a lot myself but am not entirely out yet and I keep giving myself B12 deficiency.)
I’d compare with much higher in the production chain, the people who devised and enforce inhumane practices.
But people are aware, they know meat is animals, they actively choose not to actually think about it and change their ways.
Even you who just said you know also admit you’re still eating meat.
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
btw. you should definitely be taking a B12 supplement, the animals you eat are fed the supplement so when you stop eating meat you need to take the supplement yourself.
I am taking supplements, but I need to figure my shit out because I fuck up either on the B12 or iron, each time. My first “bad” B12 deficiency came with some nerve issues and I do not want a repeat of that, it doesn’t entirely go away.
My goal is to entirely cut out meat, though. Right now, I don’t buy it for home food, but if I’m out with friends or coworkers, I’ll get whatever. It’s iterative, and as more alternatives become available in public places, I’ll get there.
That’s how I started too, and now I’m a die hard vegan :)
If your goal is in that direction, don’t get yourself down when you hit setbacks. I can thrive now, but when I was first beginning my journey I struggled a lot with eating out, especially abroad.
A setback doesn’t mean you can’t keep moving forward
My theory is that we were created by whatever most mythologies define as the devil, or altered / modified genetically by such a being into what we are today. The nice people who are altruistic are genetic throwbacks that the devil tried his hardest to breed out of the human race, but he wasn’t 100% successful.
Also, the true purpose of humanity is to destroy the earth via pollution and by killing and eating all the animals rather than to save the earth / take care of the animals. Things like cognitive dissonance were installed via software reprogramming (brainwashing) to take care of the remnant “moral feelings” that couldn’t quite be gotten rid of through DNA tweaking.
If you look at what the vast majority of what humankind are doing (rather than the small vocal minority of environmentalists) it honestly makes sense. Then again, I’ve come to see “God” as a mad scientist / absent minded professor who was all “Let’s move fast and break things, it’ll all probably work out post-beta” rather than an all powerful creator being. One of the many reasons I left the church.
Also, the true purpose of humanity is to destroy the earth via pollution
No. The purpose of a system being what it does, the purpose of life is to consume low-entropy states and excrete high-entropy states to stabilise, overall accelerating the generation of entropy in the universe and thereby hastening its demise.
Humanity’s role in all that is to colonise the stars to do it all even faster.
I wonder if we’re actually getting worse or if it’s just easier for the scum to coordinate and to some degree also be more visible due to the internet.
It is starting to feel like things used to be better, like we’re spiraling out of control.
There were more and more mass shootings, the alt right/extremists are spreading like a wild fire all over the globe, shit like this keeps happening.
I mean what the fuck? Where are we heading? And why? :/
I feel like the pendulum swings on the cruelty (at least in areas of the world we pay attention to…), while the damage caused by human civilization just keeps growing and growing. And it’s definitely easier for the scum to coordinate through the internet, but also to recruit and infiltrate minds.
I’m just sitting here being nihilistic, “Après moi, le déluge” about everything, and listening to my “collapse” playlist. The relatives I used to love went full Qanon, so I only have my cat to worry about, now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I disagree with this line of thinking. I see humans as generally good, but sometimes far too easily swayed and influenced, as well as very vulnerable to mental illness. It’s easy to have a pessimistic and nihilistic view, but it’s important to keep in mind that the vast, vast majority of people, if not all people, are victims of circumstance.
It’s apparently always the wrong time to bring up what happens to “food” animals.
When it’s on post about animal cruelty we’re derailing and taking away from the specific case.
When it’s on any other post it’s irrelevant and preachy.
So when should we speak up for the billions of animals getting needlessly abused and killed?
It just frustrates me a little when discussion of a specific issue gets immediately derailed into discussion of another related issue.
Even now youtube has a ton of torture-adjacent videos about hurt or distressed baby monkeys, catering to the same group that the torture rings cater to.
Immediately ignoring that in favour of the usual vegan talking points feels suboptimal, to me. There’s nothing actually wrong with paying specific attention to specific subjects sometimes.
It’s apparently always the wrong time to bring up what happens to “food” animals.
When it’s on post about animal cruelty we’re derailing and taking away from the specific case.
When it’s on any other post it’s irrelevant and preachy.
So when should we speak up for the billions of animals getting needlessly abused and killed?
I don’t personally have a problem with vegans making points about vegan ethical beliefs in general. It’s just the derailing away and equivalence fallacy I dislike - ironically I think it trivialises both issues.
Reminding people that they are paying for horrific animal abuse doesn’t take away from other cases
Not sure how it looks from your instance, but I now have to scroll down past at least 21 comments of the usual omnivore/vegan debates before I can find a comment that’s actually about OP’s article on macaque torture rings.
It kind of reminds me of how over on reddit any mention of violence against women in the big subs would get drowned in a tide of comments about violence against men.
If it had been part of a contextualised conversation it would have been different.
While there is an argument that eating meat is bad, we are talking about literally torturing animals without any purpose other than entertainment. This is a different level of awful.
Appearently it’s never the right time to bring it up
Put it in a discussion community, ask them, try to brainstorm a new normal. This is news, of course people won’t be very open to listen to ancillary discussion topics.
I’ve met people saying that animals are property and thus something like this is not a crime.
Dunno why it came to my mind now.
Ah. That it’s a good test showing that rights and responsibilities can’t, in fact, be completely symmetric. An animal may not have responsibilities, but it shouldn’t be abused.
this is a thread which is newsworthy, but unfortunately this is going to have to be the first thread we lock because it’s:
a magnet for people making violent threats that aren’t really acceptable and kind of kill the vibe;
a thread where half the comments are some ridiculous argument about veganism and whether eating meat is comparable to this;
and a thread where just generally, the contributions have been the expected “that’s awful!” but like. nothing else besides the ridiculous argument that isn’t even really on topic. if you want to debate veganism and its merits or whether it’s an apt comparison to circumstances like this, please just make a thread for that in Chat or something. i don’t think this is asking too much.
What’s wrong with people is that sociopaths who crave money and power to do awful things like this tend to be very good at getting them, whereas people with compassion and kindness tend to be overly generous and want to see the good in others, so tend to give away too much money and power to those sociopaths, especially if those sociopaths are good at putting up a noble front.
Plus, vast segments of the human population are basically blind sheep that don’t think for themselves, and do whatever the media tells them to do. Only way to really solve this in the long term is by convincing people with morals to be more ambitious and to understand how to gain, then use money and power to influence society and the media. The dictator / oligarch types are very good at this (controlling money, power, and the media) whereas nice people who just want to help everyone are very poor at this.
Yeah, a good point I guess. It generally is the same type of person who is somewhat sociopathic who also happens to find themself in a position of power and wealth etc.
No. That’s not how this works. You don’t get to put every non-vegetarian at the same level as these fuckers.
I eat meat, but I want the animals up until the moment of slaughter to live a good, stressfree life. And the slaughter itself to be immediate and painless. Not to have their fingers chopped off or them being tortured with screwdrivers, hammers and pliers.
You acknowledge here that animals feel pain and suffering and that you’d prefer not to cause pain and suffering to animals
If you have any sense you can see that you eating meat causes pain and suffering to animals, yet you continue to eat meat. Why do you decide to suffer this cognitive dissonance instead of just stopping causing suffering to innocents?
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Day ruined. This is sick
I heard about the baby monkey video phenomenon a few years ago, so hearing a few of these scumbags have actually been caught made my day.
There is still way too much adjacent material on youtube.
Well, that’s enough internet for today :(
What the fuck
This is by far the most fucked up thing I’ve read in a long time. What the fuck is wrong with people? There is no punishment too inhumane for anyone who would do this.
Do you feel the same way about people who eat meat?
Imagine being such an unbelievable dumbarse that you think mindless torture is the same as natural carnivorous dietary habits.
You’re calling someone an unbelievable dumbarse and then immediately using a logical fallacy, who’s the dumbarse here?
An appeal to nature is a pathetic defense. It’s natural to rape and murder too, but obviously we recognise that those are negative things that should be avoided. Why do you think needlessly killing an animal is any different?
You don’t need to rape or murder to live, you need food to survive, kinda two different things.
Food yes, animals products no
Humans can easily thrive with a plant based diet.
Humans aren’t “naturally carnivorous”
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
Downvoting me doesn’t make needless killing any less cruel.
Plants are living things too, right? So why is it ok to eat them but not animals? Are you saying we should not eat plants too, because it also harm a living thing and we should all just die?
How about any carnivorous animals (which surprise, we are partially) do they need to stop eating meat too?
You misunderstand the ethics of veganism. Vegans aim to reduce suffering. So far, science points to most animals being likely to suffer similarly to how we as humans suffer, since we share evolutionary history and similar biological systems.
Plants do not share these systems, nor have any evolutionary pressure to be able to suffer or feel pain, since they would not be able to do anything about it anyway
It’s not a blanket “living things are sacred”
Furthermore, if you really cared at all about the poor suffering plants, you’d know that the vast vast majority of plants grown by humans are fed inefficiently to animals. So, by going vegan, you’d be hugely reducing the number of plants you are causing harm to
Finally, carnivorous animals have literally nothing to do with veganism. Please stop trying to discredit a movement you don’t even understand
I mean we are a species have deficiencies without supplements if having a full vegan diet, how can you say we don’t need animal products when not using them causes our body problems?
Most farmed plants are used as animal feed, eating plants directly uses much less.
So even if this nonsense argument had any validity veganism would still be the answer.
Humans have the capability to consider the consequences of our actions, other animals don’t.
Lions sometimes eat their kids, should it be okay for humans to do the same because lions do it?
For big slaughter houses etc it is the same. The animals there a tortured on a daily basis. I’m not saying all meat eaters are evil, there are small local farms where animals can live a good life. But the large scale industrial meat (and dairy) production is just this.
Even small local farms are still needlessly killing animals for profit/taste
Unless the only reason you’re enjoying your beef is because you enjoy thinking about how the animal was suffering to produce it, the two are not the same.
I’m not saying the meat industry isn’t evil, but it’s not torture for the sake of torture. They just don’t give a shit and are only concerned about profits, which is messed up but not the same.
So it is better to kill, torture and abuse animals for profit than for fun?
In the meat industry, animal suffering is not the goal. The goal is to deliver as much product (food in this case) to the consumer as cheaply as possible. Animal suffering is a byproduct of this because on a large enough scale, both the consumer and the capitalists running the slaughterhouses are far enough removed from the animals that they don’t have to confront the moral questions of what they’re putting these animals through.
I agree that it’s still a disgusting practice, but it’s not the same thing as deliberately harming animals for your own amusement. In the meat industry, some people can hand-wave those moral concerns away by saying to themselves “at least the animals died for something good: to feed countless families”. Whether you agree with that reasoning or not (which, for the record, I do not), that same person can’t use that excuse in the case of these monkeys. It’s just pointless suffering for the amusement of a handful of psychopaths.
But it kinda is tho isn’t it?
Paying someone to kill animals because you like the taste of their corpses is basically harming animals for your own amusement.
Yes it’s not just taste, also “food” but food can also just be plants so that leaves just taste aka. pleasure aka. amusement.
I don’t feel like that’s a fair comparison. Meat consumption has a lot of issues, but the consumer, at the end of the production chain, does not eat his steak with the mindset of “how much more can I make an animal suffer for the lulz, and can we take pliers to it first?”. Mostly, they are apathetic or unaware. (Disclosure: I have reduced meat a lot myself but am not entirely out yet and I keep giving myself B12 deficiency.)
I’d compare with much higher in the production chain, the people who devised and enforce inhumane practices.
But people are aware, they know meat is animals, they actively choose not to actually think about it and change their ways.
Even you who just said you know also admit you’re still eating meat.
Humans can easily thrive without meat or any other animal products, that means consuming it is purely preference, preferring to hurt animals because you like the taste of their corpses instead of just eating plants is fucked up.
btw. you should definitely be taking a B12 supplement, the animals you eat are fed the supplement so when you stop eating meat you need to take the supplement yourself.
I am taking supplements, but I need to figure my shit out because I fuck up either on the B12 or iron, each time. My first “bad” B12 deficiency came with some nerve issues and I do not want a repeat of that, it doesn’t entirely go away.
My goal is to entirely cut out meat, though. Right now, I don’t buy it for home food, but if I’m out with friends or coworkers, I’ll get whatever. It’s iterative, and as more alternatives become available in public places, I’ll get there.
That’s how I started too, and now I’m a die hard vegan :)
If your goal is in that direction, don’t get yourself down when you hit setbacks. I can thrive now, but when I was first beginning my journey I struggled a lot with eating out, especially abroad.
A setback doesn’t mean you can’t keep moving forward
Thank you! The encouragement sure helps
Congratulations to you on getting there ♥
Why the fuck is humanity so completely deranged? :(
My theory is that we were created by whatever most mythologies define as the devil, or altered / modified genetically by such a being into what we are today. The nice people who are altruistic are genetic throwbacks that the devil tried his hardest to breed out of the human race, but he wasn’t 100% successful.
Also, the true purpose of humanity is to destroy the earth via pollution and by killing and eating all the animals rather than to save the earth / take care of the animals. Things like cognitive dissonance were installed via software reprogramming (brainwashing) to take care of the remnant “moral feelings” that couldn’t quite be gotten rid of through DNA tweaking.
If you look at what the vast majority of what humankind are doing (rather than the small vocal minority of environmentalists) it honestly makes sense. Then again, I’ve come to see “God” as a mad scientist / absent minded professor who was all “Let’s move fast and break things, it’ll all probably work out post-beta” rather than an all powerful creator being. One of the many reasons I left the church.
No. The purpose of a system being what it does, the purpose of life is to consume low-entropy states and excrete high-entropy states to stabilise, overall accelerating the generation of entropy in the universe and thereby hastening its demise.
Humanity’s role in all that is to colonise the stars to do it all even faster.
I have no fucking clue but it gets tiring…
I wonder if we’re actually getting worse or if it’s just easier for the scum to coordinate and to some degree also be more visible due to the internet.
It is starting to feel like things used to be better, like we’re spiraling out of control.
There were more and more mass shootings, the alt right/extremists are spreading like a wild fire all over the globe, shit like this keeps happening.
I mean what the fuck? Where are we heading? And why? :/
I feel like the pendulum swings on the cruelty (at least in areas of the world we pay attention to…), while the damage caused by human civilization just keeps growing and growing. And it’s definitely easier for the scum to coordinate through the internet, but also to recruit and infiltrate minds.
I’m just sitting here being nihilistic, “Après moi, le déluge” about everything, and listening to my “collapse” playlist. The relatives I used to love went full Qanon, so I only have my cat to worry about, now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It is, read through history books. Humans always been absoulte scum of the earth
I disagree with this line of thinking. I see humans as generally good, but sometimes far too easily swayed and influenced, as well as very vulnerable to mental illness. It’s easy to have a pessimistic and nihilistic view, but it’s important to keep in mind that the vast, vast majority of people, if not all people, are victims of circumstance.
Well that’s enough internet for today. Geeze. So glad these people are being tracked down so they can be brought to justice.
What. The. Fuck.
Reminder that the animals people eat are also living and feeling beings who don’t want to die for your burger.
I wonder what all the people downvoting think, do they disagree that “food” animals are also living beings?
They think this isn’t the time or place to bring that up. ffs have some tact. Or self awareness at least
It’s apparently always the wrong time to bring up what happens to “food” animals.
When it’s on post about animal cruelty we’re derailing and taking away from the specific case.
When it’s on any other post it’s irrelevant and preachy.
So when should we speak up for the billions of animals getting needlessly abused and killed?
Plants let out an ultrasonic scream when their leaves are cut or they don’t get enough water
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/plants-shriek-with-high-pitched-ultrasonic-clicks-when-stressed-study-2023-3%3famp
Most farmed plants are used as animal feed, eating plants directly uses much less.
So even if this nonsense argument had any validity veganism would still be the answer.
You choose to ignore the screams that your ears cant decipher.
What? I just told you that less plants are “harmed” for a planet based diet than a meat filled one.
While you are correct, this is taking away from the outrage about the hurt animals mentioned in this post.
Its rarely like: poor animals I’ve been eating all my life, I’ll be vegan now.
It’s more often like: good point, I shouldn’t care about these animals neither.
You, hearing that someone is torturing monkeys: “ah yes that reminds me I should torture some monkeys”
???
That’s an incredibly silly way of looking at it lol
I would still rather be killed and eaten than slowly tortured for weeks by someone making money off torture videos.
Neither needs to happen
A lot of things that happen in this world don’t need to happen.
Wouldn’t you rather just live and not be tortured?
It just frustrates me a little when discussion of a specific issue gets immediately derailed into discussion of another related issue.
Even now youtube has a ton of torture-adjacent videos about hurt or distressed baby monkeys, catering to the same group that the torture rings cater to.
Immediately ignoring that in favour of the usual vegan talking points feels suboptimal, to me. There’s nothing actually wrong with paying specific attention to specific subjects sometimes.
It’s apparently always the wrong time to bring up what happens to “food” animals.
When it’s on post about animal cruelty we’re derailing and taking away from the specific case.
When it’s on any other post it’s irrelevant and preachy.
So when should we speak up for the billions of animals getting needlessly abused and killed?
I don’t personally have a problem with vegans making points about vegan ethical beliefs in general. It’s just the derailing away and equivalence fallacy I dislike - ironically I think it trivialises both issues.
Any post about it outside vegan communities gets downvoted to hell.
I’m glad you don’t personally have a problem with people against animal cruelty.
Reminding people that they are paying for horrific animal abuse doesn’t take away from other cases of abuse.
So maybe take the hint
Not sure how it looks from your instance, but I now have to scroll down past at least 21 comments of the usual omnivore/vegan debates before I can find a comment that’s actually about OP’s article on macaque torture rings.
It kind of reminds me of how over on reddit any mention of violence against women in the big subs would get drowned in a tide of comments about violence against men.
If it had been part of a contextualised conversation it would have been different.
I totally agree.
While there is an argument that eating meat is bad, we are talking about literally torturing animals without any purpose other than entertainment. This is a different level of awful.
Put it in a discussion community, ask them, try to brainstorm a new normal. This is news, of course people won’t be very open to listen to ancillary discussion topics.
What the fuck?
I agree what the fuck
And that’s why I hate and despise people
My childhood of Sesame Street and Transformers and Dr. Suess didn’t prepare me adequately for the horrors of humanity.
But at least I didn’t become a monkey torturer. So there’s that.
I’ve met people saying that animals are property and thus something like this is not a crime.
Dunno why it came to my mind now.
Ah. That it’s a good test showing that rights and responsibilities can’t, in fact, be completely symmetric. An animal may not have responsibilities, but it shouldn’t be abused.
Silver lining, they were caught.
I made such a surprised face when the torture mogul decided to pose in front of a Trump flag. 😐
“I’m not a bad guy,” claims man with swastika tatoo, standing in front of Confederate flag.
this is a thread which is newsworthy, but unfortunately this is going to have to be the first thread we lock because it’s:
Absolutely messed up. What is wrong with people?!?
What’s wrong with people is that sociopaths who crave money and power to do awful things like this tend to be very good at getting them, whereas people with compassion and kindness tend to be overly generous and want to see the good in others, so tend to give away too much money and power to those sociopaths, especially if those sociopaths are good at putting up a noble front.
Plus, vast segments of the human population are basically blind sheep that don’t think for themselves, and do whatever the media tells them to do. Only way to really solve this in the long term is by convincing people with morals to be more ambitious and to understand how to gain, then use money and power to influence society and the media. The dictator / oligarch types are very good at this (controlling money, power, and the media) whereas nice people who just want to help everyone are very poor at this.
Yeah, a good point I guess. It generally is the same type of person who is somewhat sociopathic who also happens to find themself in a position of power and wealth etc.
There are even people who adopt cats from rescuers and torture the cats
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No. That’s not how this works. You don’t get to put every non-vegetarian at the same level as these fuckers.
I eat meat, but I want the animals up until the moment of slaughter to live a good, stressfree life. And the slaughter itself to be immediate and painless. Not to have their fingers chopped off or them being tortured with screwdrivers, hammers and pliers.
You acknowledge here that animals feel pain and suffering and that you’d prefer not to cause pain and suffering to animals
If you have any sense you can see that you eating meat causes pain and suffering to animals, yet you continue to eat meat. Why do you decide to suffer this cognitive dissonance instead of just stopping causing suffering to innocents?
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Both of yall got some issues.