I understand why they did what they did and it makes me think of how db0 and other admins are saying fuck all and taking a very big liability for making and supporting a free internet and i want to say all the work you do is very much appreciated. Also shoutout to lemmy.ml admins for running a similar community on their own .
Links for supporting the db0 server and do consider donating as it is running behind on expenses.
As someone who just started with this community, I’ll admit that I’m a little confused by what happened. Appreciate everyone who puts in time here though!
Legally I think they’d probably be exempted from liability as a common carrier, similar to how your email server isn’t going to get sued if you mail someone a link to piracy. I doubt they’re interested in testing that theory though.
That’s a stretch to call any new website, especially with the market share of Lemmy, a common carrier.
By that reasoning, narcotics mules are common carriers. “I didn’t know it was H in that bag in my bum! I thought it was a recipe for oatmeal cookies! Don’t blame me!”
Edit: I should add that I would love a broad classification of simple facilitators like email and Lemmy etc. as common carriers. Just doesn’t seem likely with the lobby man-hours working to prevent even true common carriers from getting that classification.
I don’t think comparing a federated message board to smuggling drugs is as fair a comparison as say email or Usenet, also federated services which have both been granted common carrier in the past, but go off I guess.
Fair. I picked another activity that’s illegal on its face that stood out for its absurdity. Now I’m researching when Usenet or email were ever classified as CC, hopefully benefiting from this discussion.
In fairness I may be mistaken. It seems ISPs were extended common carrier protections in relation to hosting Usenet and email and I conflated that with the protocols themselves. Either way it was a long time ago and I doubt they’d extend those protections to generic web platforms these days, but I’d sure like someone to set a precedent for it.
The US would rather try to pin mass shootings on social media platforms than address the core issues that might destabilize their status quo sociopolitical puppet show, which could set an incredibly dangerous precedent. I wouldn’t be surprised if some money happened to find its way into the right pockets to try the same thing on behalf of the poor poor megacorps’ “lost sales” in the near future.
Thank you! I started the server as a random project right after I left Reddit and shredded all of my posts. I’m pretty sure I’m the only active user but that’s okay by me. It’s a little money out of my pocket to give both myself and others refuge from social media and all of the enshitification.
Don’t mention it! Your reasoning and mindset is so very heartening, I hope you’ll get more active users, they’ll be in good hands for sure. Instance owners like your self, db0 are a treasure. 👌
AFAIK Lemmy.world (the largest Lemmy instance) was issued a takedown request for something unrelated, and conducted a review of the piracy communities following that.
Unfortunately they decided to remove/unfed a few piracy communities as a result, such as this one on dbzer0.
So while we are still all federated, lemmy.world users can no longer see or interact with the !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com community ☹️
I think they’ve just defederated the community, so they can see users commenting from dbzer0 but can’t access !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com themselves.
But generally yes, federation is two way. It’s possible for one side to defederate while the other side to be federated, in which case users on one side could post comments but they’d only be visible to instances that are federated with them. Eg, if lemmy.world was not federated with dbzer0 at all, but it was still federated with lemmy.ml, then dbzer0 comments in lemmy.world would show up for dbzer0 and lemmy.ml users but not for lemmy.world.
I know that trot means Trotsky other than that my views can be summed up as “ If you want to be a communist, awesome, maybe you will be the ones to figure out how to make it last. If you decide to do that at the point of a gun, then you can suck off your rifle until it busts a nut in your mouth.”
Shipping has gotten weird these days. I knew there was countries-as-waifus (Hetalia et al) but never expected now instances-as-waifus so as to see lemons of.
Nah, I disagree. They are running a large community in the middle of Europe, in plain view and being personally known, and as such, liable. Adhering to applicable laws and regulations is the sensible thing to do, plain and simple.
That makes it even worse. Imagine putting in all this effort and taking all this supposed risk to create a new social media platform free of the pitfalls that come with a for profit site like reddit only to slowly adopt the exact same corporate friendly code of conduct while purposefully curating a community of annoying shitheads who are nearly indistinguishable from the horde of cretins on reddit.
If making a new reddit is legitimately the best they can do, then they should absolutely just scuttle the entire project.
I’m talking about the broader implications of meta integration being the possible driving force behind the multiple defederations, not specifically this, the latest, which would be included as part of a larger “cleanup”.
I think (as their open communications on the subject have indicated) that they prefer to keep their legal liability profile slim. In the end, no matter how many users you have in your instance, you’re still alone in that court room against the monopolies that represent content rights holders.
From what I can tell they (at least the older admins and Ruud) seem to have no love for Meta, but they aren’t chicken little about it either. Federated or not, Meta can easily scrape Lemmy data, so if you mean that .world defederated to pretty up their image and make themselves attractive to Meta, I just don’t see the point, but also, it seems like a conspiracy theory to me.
There’s a piece on TF about a website that closed down years ago, and has been acquitted four times of their “crimes” of linking (as opposed to hosting), and due to a new definition of “communicate” is being sued a fifth time. The sue-happy rights holders have no compunction against going back to destroy anyone they perceive at any time to have infringed “their” works. Look at Reddit, still defending users against identification for doing what? Saying their ISP was lenient about DMCA notices. To protect against that garbage, you have to be careful, and perhaps remove content you agree with to CYA.
Thanks for this context. I myself have been looking around for info and excepting old posts from months ago i have failed. Perhaps the dmca request is more because they are the largest and highest visibility then? Thanks again
Yeah. I have a lot of concerns over how much market share .world has and some of the really questionable things the admins have done (removing protections related to hate speech from their TOS, having a policy of wiping all comments of a user and accusing them of pretty heinous shit, etc).
But I 100% support this particular action. We run VPNs and use burner emails when we pirate stuff. They don’t really have that luxury due to the nature of web hosting. So kudos to the instance owners who are willing to play with fire on our behalf but… I sure wouldn’t.
.world admin definitely directly defended nazis (literal promotion of direct nazi policies and whatnot, not ‘I don’t like you so you’re nazi’)
I linked to aforementioned content posted by a fellow community mod and politely asked if he could be removed and I got instantly banned from the whole instance.
Like, a no would’ve sufficed 😂 just banning me from the instance definitely just makes me think you agree with it.
Excellent and appropriate point to make. The real problem is with the deference that copyright and “IP” are given in courts around the world, and the way trade agreements force members to adopt similar stances in their legislation and prosecution. Even if IPFS can help our cause in some way, the industry will waste no time criminalizing it.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.
Just went to ko-fi too, i use lemmy daily and i love this instance & the admins here, and thats worth a few bucks a month
db0 is a personal hero of mine I have been a follower since his OCTGN creations.
daym, you take me back. Pre or post A:NR? :D
Started with A:NR, and your sound effects were legendary amongst everyone I know. LOGIN REJECTED
They did assist in immersion didn’t they? 😁
What’s that acronym?
Divided by zero
I meant the other one lol
Hahah! This answer works for me, because I was unsure what db0 was. Now I hopefully learn two new acronyms
Online Card and Tabletop Gaming Network
Laughed out loud
As someone who just started with this community, I’ll admit that I’m a little confused by what happened. Appreciate everyone who puts in time here though!
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One of the largest instances, lemmy.world, is no longer receiving posts from this community. They’re worried about legal troubles I think?
Legally I think they’d probably be exempted from liability as a common carrier, similar to how your email server isn’t going to get sued if you mail someone a link to piracy. I doubt they’re interested in testing that theory though.
Yeah, it would have to be tested in court. Presumably they don’t want to spend that time and money.
It wouldn’t have to be tested in court.
Does .world host content from db0? No. It just connects to it via a common protocol.
They are lying to your face if they say it’s because of ‘legal reasons.’ And a lot of you are stupid enough to take their word at face value.
That’s a stretch to call any new website, especially with the market share of Lemmy, a common carrier.
By that reasoning, narcotics mules are common carriers. “I didn’t know it was H in that bag in my bum! I thought it was a recipe for oatmeal cookies! Don’t blame me!”
Edit: I should add that I would love a broad classification of simple facilitators like email and Lemmy etc. as common carriers. Just doesn’t seem likely with the lobby man-hours working to prevent even true common carriers from getting that classification.
I don’t think comparing a federated message board to smuggling drugs is as fair a comparison as say email or Usenet, also federated services which have both been granted common carrier in the past, but go off I guess.
Fair. I picked another activity that’s illegal on its face that stood out for its absurdity. Now I’m researching when Usenet or email were ever classified as CC, hopefully benefiting from this discussion.
In fairness I may be mistaken. It seems ISPs were extended common carrier protections in relation to hosting Usenet and email and I conflated that with the protocols themselves. Either way it was a long time ago and I doubt they’d extend those protections to generic web platforms these days, but I’d sure like someone to set a precedent for it.
It would be great to see the public good placed far above corporate good. Alas…
The US would rather try to pin mass shootings on social media platforms than address the core issues that might destabilize their status quo sociopolitical puppet show, which could set an incredibly dangerous precedent. I wouldn’t be surprised if some money happened to find its way into the right pockets to try the same thing on behalf of the poor poor megacorps’ “lost sales” in the near future.
Bullshit. There are no legal troubles for them. Someone on their team doesn’t like piracy, so they try to stifle discussion about it.
Didnt they unblock it, or did they block it again?
Blocked, unblocked, then blocked again recently.
I will never defederate from y’all ❤️
OT, that’s a very nice UN and instance name you have!
Thank you! I started the server as a random project right after I left Reddit and shredded all of my posts. I’m pretty sure I’m the only active user but that’s okay by me. It’s a little money out of my pocket to give both myself and others refuge from social media and all of the enshitification.
Don’t mention it! Your reasoning and mindset is so very heartening, I hope you’ll get more active users, they’ll be in good hands for sure. Instance owners like your self, db0 are a treasure. 👌
Here’s the donations links from on the sidebar mateys. The server is currently is not covering its hosting costs ;)
EDIT: Removed since they’re in the OP now
Man, I didn’t realize there were only 22 people supporting you monthly.
53 of us are on Patreon too
I didn’t realize there was a patreon, I made a Ko-fi account just for this.
Ko-fi is better for the creator anyway, I wish I knew about the Ko-Fi first haha
What are the current hosting costs? Every cent counts, but how much do y’all need?
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
check the ko-fi. It shows how much progress we have to cover the costs until June
The ko-fi page has that info i think.
Added to the post .
Care to ELI5 for us casuals who did not catch and are missing the obvious?
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AFAIK Lemmy.world (the largest Lemmy instance) was issued a takedown request for something unrelated, and conducted a review of the piracy communities following that.
Unfortunately they decided to remove/unfed a few piracy communities as a result, such as this one on dbzer0.
So while we are still all federated, lemmy.world users can no longer see or interact with the !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com community ☹️
So we can still things from them but they can’t see things from us?
I suppose that’s why people make at least two accounts.
I think they’ve just defederated the community, so they can see users commenting from dbzer0 but can’t access !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com themselves.
But generally yes, federation is two way. It’s possible for one side to defederate while the other side to be federated, in which case users on one side could post comments but they’d only be visible to instances that are federated with them. Eg, if lemmy.world was not federated with dbzer0 at all, but it was still federated with lemmy.ml, then dbzer0 comments in lemmy.world would show up for dbzer0 and lemmy.ml users but not for lemmy.world.
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Hmmm I’ve heard lemon commies call tatertrot commies fake commies. Are you a lemon or marker?
I know that trot means Trotsky other than that my views can be summed up as “ If you want to be a communist, awesome, maybe you will be the ones to figure out how to make it last. If you decide to do that at the point of a gun, then you can suck off your rifle until it busts a nut in your mouth.”
Hmm, no youre right that doesn’t sound respectful at all
lol, never heard ML being “lemon” and trot being a “tatertrot”. Cute!
Shipping has gotten weird these days. I knew there was countries-as-waifus (Hetalia et al) but never expected now instances-as-waifus so as to see lemons of.
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Being defederated by lemmyworld is a badge of honor. Keep up the good work!
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Nah, I disagree. They are running a large community in the middle of Europe, in plain view and being personally known, and as such, liable. Adhering to applicable laws and regulations is the sensible thing to do, plain and simple.
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he’s a real VIKING of following the rules written by rich people!
That makes it even worse. Imagine putting in all this effort and taking all this supposed risk to create a new social media platform free of the pitfalls that come with a for profit site like reddit only to slowly adopt the exact same corporate friendly code of conduct while purposefully curating a community of annoying shitheads who are nearly indistinguishable from the horde of cretins on reddit.
If making a new reddit is legitimately the best they can do, then they should absolutely just scuttle the entire project.
Honestly even Reddit is better. Reddit still has a r/piracy
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This, folks, is how not to have a conversation
skill issue
Feels like .world is defedding from errybody. Eventually theyre gonna be like aol (or some other more recent, relevant walled garden).
Do y’all think this “cleaning up” has to do with their META threads integration?
I am specifically not on world because they want me to sign up with my real email address. Nty, deanonymizing fucks.
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You mean as opposed to their stated reason: DMCA?
I’m talking about the broader implications of meta integration being the possible driving force behind the multiple defederations, not specifically this, the latest, which would be included as part of a larger “cleanup”.
Awesome username, BTW
I think (as their open communications on the subject have indicated) that they prefer to keep their legal liability profile slim. In the end, no matter how many users you have in your instance, you’re still alone in that court room against the monopolies that represent content rights holders.
From what I can tell they (at least the older admins and Ruud) seem to have no love for Meta, but they aren’t chicken little about it either. Federated or not, Meta can easily scrape Lemmy data, so if you mean that .world defederated to pretty up their image and make themselves attractive to Meta, I just don’t see the point, but also, it seems like a conspiracy theory to me.
There’s a piece on TF about a website that closed down years ago, and has been acquitted four times of their “crimes” of linking (as opposed to hosting), and due to a new definition of “communicate” is being sued a fifth time. The sue-happy rights holders have no compunction against going back to destroy anyone they perceive at any time to have infringed “their” works. Look at Reddit, still defending users against identification for doing what? Saying their ISP was lenient about DMCA notices. To protect against that garbage, you have to be careful, and perhaps remove content you agree with to CYA.
Thanks for this context. I myself have been looking around for info and excepting old posts from months ago i have failed. Perhaps the dmca request is more because they are the largest and highest visibility then? Thanks again
Yeah. I have a lot of concerns over how much market share .world has and some of the really questionable things the admins have done (removing protections related to hate speech from their TOS, having a policy of wiping all comments of a user and accusing them of pretty heinous shit, etc).
But I 100% support this particular action. We run VPNs and use burner emails when we pirate stuff. They don’t really have that luxury due to the nature of web hosting. So kudos to the instance owners who are willing to play with fire on our behalf but… I sure wouldn’t.
.world admin definitely directly defended nazis (literal promotion of direct nazi policies and whatnot, not ‘I don’t like you so you’re nazi’)
I linked to aforementioned content posted by a fellow community mod and politely asked if he could be removed and I got instantly banned from the whole instance.
Like, a no would’ve sufficed 😂 just banning me from the instance definitely just makes me think you agree with it.
Excellent and appropriate point to make. The real problem is with the deference that copyright and “IP” are given in courts around the world, and the way trade agreements force members to adopt similar stances in their legislation and prosecution. Even if IPFS can help our cause in some way, the industry will waste no time criminalizing it.
Sigh… 46 and 2
Wait, they are federating with Threads? I thought everyone, even single-user instances blocked them. WTF?
Yeah, this is why users should get to decide which instances they get to see.
Let’s be our own moderators instead of relying on useful idiots to do it for us.
Do you have a link to this? That sounds extremely alarming, I did not realize they had done that.
I was going off this info, and was being a bit chicken little (but that position has been working for me LoL) Here’s that link
https://www.theverge.com/24106231/threads-fediverse-demo-meta-fediforum
I got a reply from stretch@lemmy.dbzer0.com further down that sounded like they knew more than me about the situation.
Im sticking to my deffedding for now, and I’ll wait to hear is the sky is falling from my tinfoil bunker
.world is basically just the losers who got upset that it was too difficult to be a reddit mod since they didn’t have enough power
I think bad actors have infiltrated their admin team and are pushing their own agenda.
Lots of useful idiots want to ban discussion of piracy because it makes them realize how they’re getting ripped off.
Nobody wants to acknowledge how they’re being taken for a ride, especially useful idiots.
Love 'em. And mods of this community are pretty tight too 💘
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0