Can you just drop to assembly for what you want to do?
Gnu compilers even have inline assembly, but with any compiler you should at least be able to built a separate, assembly, object file.
I can and have, and it’s still a tremendous pain in the ass to launder the addresses for labels. The hottest loop in the game draws an arbitrary span of the same tile. It should be trivial to do a jump table - to grab an address from an array and go there. 13 tiles? goto jump[13]. (Or really some stack / return shenanigans, because the 6502 is odd.) But if there’s any way to get cc65 to shove the location of an instruction into an array, I haven’t found it.
It’s not a logical programming language, but markup directs the formatting and general output of content to the screen. -Is that not a function of programming?
Does that make Rich Text Format a programming language then? Does that make jpg a programming language?
I think that markup is the data that a program takes as input - but I also think it’s not black and white. How programmy a language is is a sliding scale.
Those are interesting analogies. I guess I’d have to agree they are certainly a function of programming whereas I probably should have specified programming languages (directed by text) but then one could argue that the examples you mentioned are merely a language of buttons and other user input. —"Sliding scale " indeed.
Sorry I wasn’t clear, I meant the formats themselves.
Writing rich text using a text editor is kind of like writing HTML with a WYSIWYG editor, but just like with HTML you can go in and write RTF by hand.
Likewise you can use Photoshop to make an image, but you could also go in and set the pixel values of a bmp by hand.
By sliding scale I didn’t mean wrt how you wrote them, but rather how much like an “instruction” the file tokens (for lack of better word) are. Is it instructing the computer to do something? Or is it data that the instructions act on?
Sometimes the line between input data and instruction is blurry.
Do I really have to explain the joke? The sleep paralysis demon is asking “Is HTML a programming language?” And the person is “sleep paralysed” to correct them or do anything about it really.
I don’t know what else I can explain besides that.
The “joke” is that it’s an issue that people feel compelled to comment on, but the sleeping person can’t. Predictably, most people are blowing straight past this and commenting their opinions, but most of the other replies are joking or whimsical. Yours is straightforward no-nonsense. If I had to guess, I’d say that’s why you’re being singled out.
Yes. Markup-Languages are a subset of Programming-Languages. Turing completness doesn’t matter as things like magic the gathering and habbo hotel are Turing complete
ACKSHUALLY … markup languages do not produce a formatted document. They define semantic elements of the document. The formatting is done by the compiler (whatever it is in the individual context) based on styles defined by a styling language.
That’s true! Although many people use makeup to do styling using the default styles… Which is… Not great.
But regardless I think my point still holds, it’s not providing instructions for a machine, it’s the data the instructions act on. But the difference between data and instructions is a blurry one
‘This markup language isn’t even as capable as Habbo Hotel, but it counts anyway because I just called it a programming language.’
There is a literal hierarchy of syntaxes which are recognized by different categories of machine. Programs require a Turing machine. Anything lesser - in a subset like pushdown automata or finite-state machines - doesn’t need a proper computer. So it’s not a program.
The “program” is the package of instructions that tell the machine what to do. The instructions are written in a programming language.
With a markup language, the markup is the input to a program (like a browser) that tells the machine what to do.
But I think it’s not really boolean, it’s a sliding scale. Especially with so many programming languages being interpreted or JIT compiled. I think it’s less a programming language than many other programming-related things, but more of a programming language than, say, a slideshow.
As much as a lot of us dislike it… I think it is difficult to argue for e.g. python being a programming language without including html in it.
And honestly if python is no a programming language because you use an interpreter… Then I would love to hear a non-bad-faith argument for c being a programming language as e.g. GCC could easily be viewed as an interpreter too. Obviously there is a difference but is that difference really the difference that you want it to be?
Does HTML or LaTeX or Markdown provide a computer instructions which are executed? I’m going to take the unpopular opinion and say they are programming languages.
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Hyper Text Markup Language
A. Yes it’s a language.
B. People who write HTML have been called Programmers for decades.
C. Are you writing in a kind of pseudo code that the computer is going to transform into another form? Yes.
I think the problem here isn’t that HTML isn’t a programming language. The problem is that we don’t further classify programming languages.
There should be Platform Languages and Client languages.
HTML is most definitely a Client Language.
is a hotdog a sandwich?
Taco according to the cube rule
yes
Is C a low-level language?
idk it seem nobody has an answer. Can we just call it “mid-level”?
deleted by creator
I program in natural language
“Go and buy some milk and if they have eggs, get some.”
Yes, es soon you start pointer arithmetic you dig your own grave. Hence low level
I mean idfk how you’re planning on calling a.out without an even, stronger, lower-level language like Bash 3.
I’m writing an NES game in C and struggling with some nonsense that’d be trivial in ASM, so I’m recently inclined to say yes.
Can you just drop to assembly for what you want to do? Gnu compilers even have inline assembly, but with any compiler you should at least be able to built a separate, assembly, object file.
I can and have, and it’s still a tremendous pain in the ass to launder the addresses for labels. The hottest loop in the game draws an arbitrary span of the same tile. It should be trivial to do a jump table - to grab an address from an array and go there. 13 tiles?
goto jump[13]. (Or really some stack / return shenanigans, because the 6502 is odd.) But if there’s any way to get cc65 to shove the location of an instruction into an array, I haven’t found it.Not when it was invented, no. Compared to today’s stack-phobic languages? Certainly.
clearly not, but it is low-er level that other stuff
It’s a markup language, not a programming language.
Woosh
I don’t think it is.
Care to explain what I’m missing?
It’s not a logical programming language, but markup directs the formatting and general output of content to the screen. -Is that not a function of programming?
Does that make Rich Text Format a programming language then? Does that make jpg a programming language?
I think that markup is the data that a program takes as input - but I also think it’s not black and white. How programmy a language is is a sliding scale.
Those are interesting analogies. I guess I’d have to agree they are certainly a function of programming whereas I probably should have specified programming languages (directed by text) but then one could argue that the examples you mentioned are merely a language of buttons and other user input. —"Sliding scale " indeed.
Sorry I wasn’t clear, I meant the formats themselves.
Writing rich text using a text editor is kind of like writing HTML with a WYSIWYG editor, but just like with HTML you can go in and write RTF by hand.
Likewise you can use Photoshop to make an image, but you could also go in and set the pixel values of a bmp by hand.
By sliding scale I didn’t mean wrt how you wrote them, but rather how much like an “instruction” the file tokens (for lack of better word) are. Is it instructing the computer to do something? Or is it data that the instructions act on?
Sometimes the line between input data and instruction is blurry.
Do I really have to explain the joke? The sleep paralysis demon is asking “Is HTML a programming language?” And the person is “sleep paralysed” to correct them or do anything about it really.
I don’t know what else I can explain besides that.
So… The humor is just absurdity?
Can I borrow a dollar
Nearly all the comments are taking a literal position on if it is or isn’t a programming language.
Idky I’m being singled out for not understanding the joke. It seems like nearly nobody does. And I still don’t.
The “joke” is that it’s an issue that people feel compelled to comment on, but the sleeping person can’t. Predictably, most people are blowing straight past this and commenting their opinions, but most of the other replies are joking or whimsical. Yours is straightforward no-nonsense. If I had to guess, I’d say that’s why you’re being singled out.
deleted by creator
Yes. Markup-Languages are a subset of Programming-Languages. Turing completness doesn’t matter as things like magic the gathering and habbo hotel are Turing complete
So Habbo Hotel is a programming language.
Idk it just feels wrong.
If you can write a moderately complex math equation in tex on the first try, you’re a programmer in my book.
idk css feels just as frustrating
I feel like programming language produces programs, and makeup languages formatted documents.
I wouldn’t consider a formatted document to be a program, so I don’t consider a markup language to be a programming language.
Doesn’t make it less valuable, though
ACKSHUALLY … markup languages do not produce a formatted document. They define semantic elements of the document. The formatting is done by the compiler (whatever it is in the individual context) based on styles defined by a styling language.
That’s true! Although many people use makeup to do styling using the default styles… Which is… Not great.
But regardless I think my point still holds, it’s not providing instructions for a machine, it’s the data the instructions act on. But the difference between data and instructions is a blurry one
‘This markup language isn’t even as capable as Habbo Hotel, but it counts anyway because I just called it a programming language.’
There is a literal hierarchy of syntaxes which are recognized by different categories of machine. Programs require a Turing machine. Anything lesser - in a subset like pushdown automata or finite-state machines - doesn’t need a proper computer. So it’s not a program.
Is Linux a operating system?
Why does a demon need a moustache?
Makes him cooler?
I mean that’s what it asks me 😆
Makes him evil
So, if he shaves, would that makes him neutral? Good?
You can’t write a program in HTML.
End of discussion.
I mean technically I could write an interpreter that assigns semantics to HTML constructs.
programing languages arent use to make programs they are used to program machines which is exactly what u do with html.
The “program” is the package of instructions that tell the machine what to do. The instructions are written in a programming language.
With a markup language, the markup is the input to a program (like a browser) that tells the machine what to do.
But I think it’s not really boolean, it’s a sliding scale. Especially with so many programming languages being interpreted or JIT compiled. I think it’s less a programming language than many other programming-related things, but more of a programming language than, say, a slideshow.
Which HTML cannot do, because if it could, that would be called a program. That’s what the word means.
HTML makes documents. It’s a markup language. It’s not even Turing-complete accidentally.
As much as a lot of us dislike it… I think it is difficult to argue for e.g. python being a programming language without including html in it.
And honestly if python is no a programming language because you use an interpreter… Then I would love to hear a non-bad-faith argument for c being a programming language as e.g. GCC could easily be viewed as an interpreter too. Obviously there is a difference but is that difference really the difference that you want it to be?
Is fondant a cake?
Does HTML or LaTeX or Markdown provide a computer instructions which are executed? I’m going to take the unpopular opinion and say they are programming languages.
37 comments so far and not one answer.