It says it has listened to concerns about the tool, which continuously screenshots online activity.
Microsoft says it has “listened to feedback” following a privacy row over a new tool which takes regular screenshots of users’ activity.
It was labelled a potential “privacy nightmare” by critics when it was unveiled in May 2024 - prompting the tech giant to postpone its release.
It now plans to relaunch the artificial intelligence (AI) powered tool in November on its new CoPilot+ computers.
[…]
When it initially announced the tool at its developer conference in May, Microsoft said it used AI “to make it possible to access virtually anything you have ever seen on your PC”, and likened it to having photographic memory.
It said Recall could search through a users’ past activity, including their files, photos, emails and browsing history.
[…]
But critics quickly raised concerns, given the quantity of sensitive data the system would harvest, with one expert labelling it a potential “privacy nightmare."
[…]
[Pavan Davuluri, Microsoft’s corporate vice president of Windows and devices says] that “Windows offers tools to help you control your privacy and customise what gets saved for you to find later”.
However a technical blog about it states that “diagnostic data” from the tool may be shared with the firm depending on individual privacy settings.
[Microsoft says in a blog post that users can remove Recall entirely by using the optional features settings in Windows.]
For the time being, Proton is good enough for me. I think devs/publishers refusing to enable their chosen anticheat to work with Proton is what is holding things back now for tech people. For other people, there’s even bigger challenges, and I doubt they even read up on these “tech nightmares” so they’re good with just continuing on with Windows.
“When asked for further comment Microsoft fucknuts replied with: It’s the best part of being a monopoly in the PC market. Don’t like what we’re doing? Where’s the average user going to go, Linux? BWAHAHAHAHA! Hey normies, get fucked and feed my bank account! He then spat on the reporter and gave a small child the middle finger.”
What the heck am I going to do when win10 stops getting security patches? I really wish Valve would open up SteamOS to desktops in a public and supported way. That kind of pressure from valve has forced MS to play nice to users in the past. Anyone remember MS demanding that all software for Win8 be sold through the MS store only? And Valve said, fine we’ll make our own OS, with blackjack! And Hookers! And steam machines became a thing. Noone bought them. But it didn’t matter. It was enough pressure for MS to open up to having 3rd party storefronts again. I feel like we need this again. Also, if linux played nice with anti cheat, and discord I would probably be fine ditching windows but as it stands I’d miss out on playing games with my friends.
SteamOS is focused on gaming, so its not a full replacement for Win10. There are ton of Linux operating systems for general use (even those that SteamOS is based on), without gaming focus and being a “normal” operating system like Windows. And if you want a gaming oriented OS, then there are plenty alternatives already: HoloISO, aiming for a SteamOS like system, and bunch of other: https://github.com/ChimeraOS/chimeraos/wiki/OS-Comparison . So there is no need to wait for SteamOS to open up as a general installation media on desktop.
I honestly don’t want to leave windows. I did use linux for years and I don’t want to tinker with my OS or my applications anymore. And you’re right SteamOS isn’t a general purpose OS. My comment was more in the hopes that if it were pushed out like that, that MS would respond with more consumer friendly approaches to the desktop so I wouldn’t HAVE to switch again and deal with the jank. And there will be jank. I know a lot of games work now with proton but how about the Affinity Suite? I found a github that describes how to set up the process in like 18 easy steps so you can begin to install a custom wine for it and just like no I don’t want to do that. I want to just keep using my pc that works with the OS I actually paid money for and not get harvested. I am so tired.
Also, I too love Linux, but when I ran a dual-boot for six weeks last summer I had to troubleshoot it almost every single day. Because of that I ended up just going back to Windows and making sure I keep it clean with O&O ShutUp. Some systems just aren’t compatible with Linux and mine is one of them.
Even when it was working, only approximately half of my games ran on it, so I needed Windows anyway. (Though that may be on me for choosing Mint instead of a more gaming-centric distro.)
I’m going to go back to Linux when get a new system and can have a gaming-dedicated PC, but for now, I’m stuck with Windows.
I’m a software developer and thus tried quite a few distros. Over the years I always switched back to Ubuntu, because it was the least broken. All others just suddenly gave up and had some weird bugs I wasn’t able to easily debug. Issues are not worth my free time. And that is the only reason I use Ubuntu alongside Windows. But when support for W10 seized, Windows will be history for me.
Exactly. I will say though that I learned a lot, so it’ll be easier when I go back. I do plan to give Ubuntu a try as I’ve read it plays nicer with Nvidia.
My plan is to have a gaming-dedicated system for Windows and a non-gaming system for literally everything else on Linux.
May i suggest for both of you to try Linux Mint (Regular Edition, XFCE MATE or Cinnamon) ? It is the only linux distro that has never failed me once, after also getting into unfixable messees with majaro, arch, endeavour, and also regular debian and LMDE not even booting up on my PC. It uses the Ubuntu base and several of its programs (like the extensive hardware compatibility and system stuff) but takes away the bad stuff in it (like the SNAPs, that loads of people hate both for not being FOSS and to replace the regular debian and flatpak, and give a worse performance in several cases like Firefox). I also agree every linux distro sans Mint is too rough for now, but Linux Mint is the magnum opus of linux, is already click-click-install, beginner-friendly and stable like rock.
This is why I never really understand when people go “Just use Linux!!”. It isn’t a feasible option for everyone. For me, I work full time and I don’t have the energy to constantly fix things if they break. When I switched to Linux, I took great pains to ensure that my computer use case is one that could work in Linux, built a computer with parts known to be fine in Linux(including an AMD graphics card) and run Debian Stable on because I wanted something that wouldn’t be constantly updating. I’m in a comfy situation now, but I did a lot of planning beforehand that you can’t really expect people to do. Like, it’s great if we get more people using Linux, but that’s not a trivial ask.
Learning any OS isn’t a trivial task, but that’s something people seems to forget a lot.
But I get why people would say “just use Linux”, because if by chance you have the means to switch then why would you stay locked to a tool made by a company that doesn’t care about you or your needs ?
It would be counterproductive.
(Also getting more Linux users would be beneficial for the Linux community, it could even be beneficial to everyone if that number is big enough to make Linux a serious competitor but that’s more a distant dream than a close reality)
And that’s ok! Like it’s totally ok to be the os that it is. And it’s ok that it’s not for anyone. It’s certainly not for my desktop atm. But then it’s super amazing at appliance stuff. I’ve got home assistant on a minipc and truenas on a server. It’s ROCK SOLID when it’s deployed where it will shine.
The OS that comes preinstalled will always have the largest market share unfortunately. The average person is not going to install a linux iso to a usb and disable bitlocker and whatever else windows adds to make it harder to change the OS. That is before even setting it up and making sure everything works. It helps if you are friends with someone that is into installing operating systems that can help you but not everyone has that friend. The best linux can do is try and keep microsoft in line. Valve has been doing a lot of the heavy lifting in that regard. It is also why user friendly distros are so important. Somebody who thinks emails and the internet is the same thing is not going to go for Arch.
Very relatable. Unfortunately we just don’t live in a world where that’s currently possible right now.
I’m planning to switch to some Linux or other at end of support for W10. I’m hoping Proton will take care of most of the games I want to play, and a single-purpose Windows VM will take care of the rest, if that’s not too big of a security risk to the host OS.
It’s been a lifesaver gaming wise. Nice to know most games do and can run on linux, it’s usually the ones with some sort of online anti-cheat that don’t run.
I do think linux needs some tools that automate that sort of thing so the 18 steps becomes like 3. It doesn’t even need to be by the distro itself but scripts made for it. I managed to make a script that does the same thing as robocopy does on windows to replace a certain rundata file for gamemaker 8.1 since it had that glitch that caused the the rundata to become invalid. I did share that script on my magazine in kbin.run and kbin.social unfortunately both are defunct but I could always share it somewhere else or make a community where people ask for help with installing stuff and people make a script for it like /c/makemeascript or something. I will have a look at the affinity suite and see what steps it takes to see if It is something I am skilled enough to automate.
I get you, but relying on Microsoft not doing any anticonsumer decisions is like hoping Adobe will suddenly respect their users… It won’t happen and even if it did it’ll be short lived, it just won’t get you anywhere.
I use Bazzite (which is steam now but community maintained for more PCs) for my htpc and PopOS for my main PC, both play every game I can throw at it. Maybe it’s time to try it out. I started with a windows dual boot and found myself using it less and less, until just a couple months ago I deleted windows completely
I would not recommend Bazzite to anyone who already complains about software tinkering in regular distros. Immutable distros are very much incompatible with a lot of shit - basically almost anything that is not in their regular repos or on Flathub, and it is an absolute pain in the ass to get those type of applications running on it.
I agree installing something that isn’t super popular can be a bit harder on immutables. But I think especially on Bazzite the toolimg with distrobox is really good. And most non-technical users will probably find all they need as a flatpak anyway.
I recently tried Bazzite, and I have to agree. Switching from a traditional Linux distro to an immutable distro is harder than switching from Windows to Linux. I’m not kidding. When it comes to immutability, my experience can be split into two general cases:
I don’t notice any difference at all.
It’s a giant pain in the ass.
I have yet to encounter a scenario where immutability offered a tangible benefit. The supposed advantages seem rather abstract. I can’t break my system? Okay…but…well, I already had snapper for the rare occasions when something got royally borked. This is a problem that has already been solved without major compromises, so why are we now compromising so much to solve it again?
It comes with 4 different package management systems (or 6 if you count Distrobox and Waydroid), and they all come with big caveats. I’ve had to reboot more in the past week than I previously had in the past year on Debian, because every time I need to install something from the main Fedora repo with rpm-ostree (which has been many times already), it needs to reboot. They recommend against using rpm-ostree, but there is no reasonable alternative for a rather wide array of software. It’s either rpm-ostree or build a whole mess of things from source and manage them manually. Both options suck very hard.
Still, overall, Bazzite delivers. Everything you see on their web site works out of the box. It’s hard to recommend, but it’s also hard to criticize. I’ve never had a smoother gaming experience, and this is the first time I’ve ever had to spend zero minutes configuring my GPU drivers (outside of macOS, anyway). You get CUDA and ROCm out of the box. You get the latest drivers. It’s awesome.
If you’re wondering if an immutable distro is right for you, the answer is probably “no”. But if you’re up for the, erm, “adventure” of learning this new paradigm, Bazzite fucking rocks.
Huh? ROCm is not working for me at all so far. I’ve tried to get it to work with Koboldcpp (which I have to build in a distrobox for it to even run, but then it only runs in software / cpu mode), tried LM Studio (which is easy to install, but again, no ROCm / gpu support detected), and I tried Krita’s diffusion implementation (again, only cpu working). This and the fact that I can’t get Mullvad to run are my biggest pet peeves so far.
Ironically, I decided to try it, despite my already existing skepticism beforehand, because TimeShift managed to break my post update broken system even further to the point where I couldn’t figure out if it is even salvageable (definitely not for me though). I can’t go back to Windows but I also still have not really found a good distro for me yet.
Hmm, I’ll have to double-check it on my build. Pretty sure it was working, but it’s possible I was only getting OpenCL or Vulkan acceleration. Out of curiosity, what’s your GPU model? I think only the 7900XT[X] is officially supported for ROCm.
RX 6650 XT. And no, all RDNA 2 cards support ROCm. I literally had it running on my previous distro. Was a pain to install with all its dependencies and building the tools properly, since you often had to specify the model, but it was doable. On Bazzite it just seems impossible for me.
Seconded to Bazzite. I just installed it on my Steam Deck and I’m surprised at how well it works as a desktop too. Not actually planning on using it as a desktop though it’s nice to know the option is there.
I was a windows only person forever
Ubuntu Linux is way easier than I thought. Most things have a decent Linux version now & idk… if it doesn’t it’s not worth it.
Months and months and I haven’t looked back 🤷♂️
So. Maybe you could do that too?
Would games with anticheat work in a windows 10 vm? I am not interested in games that go out of their way to not work in wine but if it works in a vm of windows 10 you might be able to use that for gaming and whatever host os for your web browser emails etc.
If you know what you’re doing yes (not guaranteed to work in all games), but you’re always at constant threat of being potentially banned.
The info is hard to find but I assure you tons of people play anticheat games in VMs all the time. I personally avoid those games so I don’t know the specifics of all the tricks they do to hide the VM.
Being it’s a VM I could see some people just restoring from a template if they get banned and not really caring. No way to be hardware banned afaik.
This VM detection and VM anti detection is a reguarly evolving arms race, and some games invest a LOT more effort into staying on top of it than others.
Besides what other users said: if you feel comfortable with SteamOS you might want to give EndeavourOS and Manjaro a check - all three distros are based on Arch Linux, and while Arch is geared towards experienced users the later two try to “sell” it towards a wider audience.
I just saw this in a post today about manjaro, it seems like endeavor is the better choice if you are concerned about stability in the long term:
https://manjarno.pages.dev/
Discord works great on Linux nowadays. Depending on the game, anti-cheat might also be fine. I play Helldivers 2 without any issues. It’s fine if you don’t have the oomph, but Pop_OS and Bazzite are both super solid ditros with a gaming focus. I have been using Pop as my only OS on my desktop for months now and really only needed the command line for VPN access and Switch modding
You can keep using win10 without security updates, just be smart about it. Have a good firewall, and just use it for gaming and bills or whatever and you’ll be fine
… until you inevitably need to use the shell. Linux, no matter the flavor, has been very easy to use in the 22 years that I’ve tried to use it - until you need to dig ever so slightly deeper for something and then it very much isn’t. I started out with a Knoppix live-CD back in 2002. Remember that distro?
What kind of task made you use the shell in Linux Mint (and i only know Mint after 2021) ? Was it a common task a regular person would need to do, or was it a geek or pro task that regular people would not even know it exists ? I installed Nvidia drivers with a click-install GUI easier than the windows equivalent, the appstore that is only rivaled by Apple had every debian and flatpak program i searched, and all the configurations i could ever tweak are in the configurations manager (unlike the current Windows mess of control panel and worse control panel).
I started with a Knoppix-based distro, called Kurumin. KDE 3 was the rage back then!
On your main point: the shell might be hard in the beginning, but for most things that you need to use the shell with, people on the internet already had the same issue and shared how to do it. Unless you’re actively trying to make something different, like I did with my audio switching script.
And even the sort of situation that you need to use the shell for decreased by a lot from back then to now.
Ditto - that W3.11 install is just because of the Windows Entertainment Pack, I love a few of the games in it (like Pipe Dream). I don’t even know if it’s able to connect to the internet!
If you need to use abusive windows software while retaining some privacy you really have 2 options:
Have a separate PC with windows and your games installed. Isolate your activities so all your normal work and personal stuff is on linux, and then you switch input on your display, or use sunshine/moonlight to access windows when you want to.
Use linux and do all your gaming etc. in a windows VM. This is what I do but it is not easy to set up, if you’re interested in this idea keep it in mind and come back to it later.
If you’re using VM hostile software though which it sounds like you are, #2 becomes even more complicated so I say bite the bullet and do #1.
If I were to speculate, they are waiting for the NVK (Open source NVIDIA driver) to be more mature. So, they wouldn’t have to release two versions and wouldn’t depend on NVIDIA to update their driver to work with software the Steam Deck uses. I.E. Steam Deck uses gamescope for everything outside of Desktop mode. NVIDIA’s driver didn’t work with it until 2 months after the Steam Deck release. Even though it had existed for years prior.
The whole Recall thing is what finally made me get off my lazy ass and make the jump to Linux.
I chose PopOS, and I’ve been very impressed with the out-of-the-box experience.
Between Steam and Lutris, I can play just about any game I want to.
I have been using Linux off and on for 25 years (using the server pretty consistently, but always hedged with the desktop for various reasons). Since Proton and GE-Proton allow every game I want to play to work in Linux, back when Recall was first announced, I decided to finally stop hedging and went all in on the Linux desktop.
And I’m not going back. Everything is working for me and Microsoft can screw off if they think I’m going to allow such blatant spyware in my house. Their telemetry was always suspect, but this is now overt despite any assurances they attempt to make.
Edit>> And their “oh you can uninstall Recall” isn’t trustworthy when they will easily reinstall it with a Windows update (they have done this in the past with other software — notably Edge and Teams).
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@beehaw.org
A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
MS doesn’t realize how close they are to being disposable to gamers. If a few more game companies made their catalogs linux-native, they’d be toast.
Lots of people would be shocked just how many games offer linux-native binaries, not just windows ones that work with proton.
For the time being, Proton is good enough for me. I think devs/publishers refusing to enable their chosen anticheat to work with Proton is what is holding things back now for tech people. For other people, there’s even bigger challenges, and I doubt they even read up on these “tech nightmares” so they’re good with just continuing on with Windows.
“When asked for further comment Microsoft fucknuts replied with: It’s the best part of being a monopoly in the PC market. Don’t like what we’re doing? Where’s the average user going to go, Linux? BWAHAHAHAHA! Hey normies, get fucked and feed my bank account! He then spat on the reporter and gave a small child the middle finger.”
What the heck am I going to do when win10 stops getting security patches? I really wish Valve would open up SteamOS to desktops in a public and supported way. That kind of pressure from valve has forced MS to play nice to users in the past. Anyone remember MS demanding that all software for Win8 be sold through the MS store only? And Valve said, fine we’ll make our own OS, with blackjack! And Hookers! And steam machines became a thing. Noone bought them. But it didn’t matter. It was enough pressure for MS to open up to having 3rd party storefronts again. I feel like we need this again. Also, if linux played nice with anti cheat, and discord I would probably be fine ditching windows but as it stands I’d miss out on playing games with my friends.
Anyway. Privacy Nightmare AI tool bad.
SteamOS is focused on gaming, so its not a full replacement for Win10. There are ton of Linux operating systems for general use (even those that SteamOS is based on), without gaming focus and being a “normal” operating system like Windows. And if you want a gaming oriented OS, then there are plenty alternatives already: HoloISO, aiming for a SteamOS like system, and bunch of other: https://github.com/ChimeraOS/chimeraos/wiki/OS-Comparison . So there is no need to wait for SteamOS to open up as a general installation media on desktop.
I honestly don’t want to leave windows. I did use linux for years and I don’t want to tinker with my OS or my applications anymore. And you’re right SteamOS isn’t a general purpose OS. My comment was more in the hopes that if it were pushed out like that, that MS would respond with more consumer friendly approaches to the desktop so I wouldn’t HAVE to switch again and deal with the jank. And there will be jank. I know a lot of games work now with proton but how about the Affinity Suite? I found a github that describes how to set up the process in like 18 easy steps so you can begin to install a custom wine for it and just like no I don’t want to do that. I want to just keep using my pc that works with the OS I actually paid money for and not get harvested. I am so tired.
Also, I too love Linux, but when I ran a dual-boot for six weeks last summer I had to troubleshoot it almost every single day. Because of that I ended up just going back to Windows and making sure I keep it clean with O&O ShutUp. Some systems just aren’t compatible with Linux and mine is one of them.
Even when it was working, only approximately half of my games ran on it, so I needed Windows anyway. (Though that may be on me for choosing Mint instead of a more gaming-centric distro.)
I’m going to go back to Linux when get a new system and can have a gaming-dedicated PC, but for now, I’m stuck with Windows.
I’m a software developer and thus tried quite a few distros. Over the years I always switched back to Ubuntu, because it was the least broken. All others just suddenly gave up and had some weird bugs I wasn’t able to easily debug. Issues are not worth my free time. And that is the only reason I use Ubuntu alongside Windows. But when support for W10 seized, Windows will be history for me.
Exactly. I will say though that I learned a lot, so it’ll be easier when I go back. I do plan to give Ubuntu a try as I’ve read it plays nicer with Nvidia.
My plan is to have a gaming-dedicated system for Windows and a non-gaming system for literally everything else on Linux.
May i suggest for both of you to try Linux Mint (Regular Edition, XFCE MATE or Cinnamon) ? It is the only linux distro that has never failed me once, after also getting into unfixable messees with majaro, arch, endeavour, and also regular debian and LMDE not even booting up on my PC. It uses the Ubuntu base and several of its programs (like the extensive hardware compatibility and system stuff) but takes away the bad stuff in it (like the SNAPs, that loads of people hate both for not being FOSS and to replace the regular debian and flatpak, and give a worse performance in several cases like Firefox). I also agree every linux distro sans Mint is too rough for now, but Linux Mint is the magnum opus of linux, is already click-click-install, beginner-friendly and stable like rock.
Sadly, that’s the distro I had when I did my dual boot last summer. My Lenovo just isn’t compatible with it.
This is why I never really understand when people go “Just use Linux!!”. It isn’t a feasible option for everyone. For me, I work full time and I don’t have the energy to constantly fix things if they break. When I switched to Linux, I took great pains to ensure that my computer use case is one that could work in Linux, built a computer with parts known to be fine in Linux(including an AMD graphics card) and run Debian Stable on because I wanted something that wouldn’t be constantly updating. I’m in a comfy situation now, but I did a lot of planning beforehand that you can’t really expect people to do. Like, it’s great if we get more people using Linux, but that’s not a trivial ask.
Learning any OS isn’t a trivial task, but that’s something people seems to forget a lot.
But I get why people would say “just use Linux”, because if by chance you have the means to switch then why would you stay locked to a tool made by a company that doesn’t care about you or your needs ? It would be counterproductive. (Also getting more Linux users would be beneficial for the Linux community, it could even be beneficial to everyone if that number is big enough to make Linux a serious competitor but that’s more a distant dream than a close reality)
And that’s ok! Like it’s totally ok to be the os that it is. And it’s ok that it’s not for anyone. It’s certainly not for my desktop atm. But then it’s super amazing at appliance stuff. I’ve got home assistant on a minipc and truenas on a server. It’s ROCK SOLID when it’s deployed where it will shine.
The OS that comes preinstalled will always have the largest market share unfortunately. The average person is not going to install a linux iso to a usb and disable bitlocker and whatever else windows adds to make it harder to change the OS. That is before even setting it up and making sure everything works. It helps if you are friends with someone that is into installing operating systems that can help you but not everyone has that friend. The best linux can do is try and keep microsoft in line. Valve has been doing a lot of the heavy lifting in that regard. It is also why user friendly distros are so important. Somebody who thinks emails and the internet is the same thing is not going to go for Arch.
Very relatable. Unfortunately we just don’t live in a world where that’s currently possible right now.
I’m planning to switch to some Linux or other at end of support for W10. I’m hoping Proton will take care of most of the games I want to play, and a single-purpose Windows VM will take care of the rest, if that’s not too big of a security risk to the host OS.
Have you checked out Protondb.com ?
It’s been a lifesaver gaming wise. Nice to know most games do and can run on linux, it’s usually the ones with some sort of online anti-cheat that don’t run.
I tend to avoid games that have that sort of anticheat already, but that looks very useful. Thanks for sharing!
After minor setup, my experience has been incredibly plug and play.
I do think linux needs some tools that automate that sort of thing so the 18 steps becomes like 3. It doesn’t even need to be by the distro itself but scripts made for it. I managed to make a script that does the same thing as robocopy does on windows to replace a certain rundata file for gamemaker 8.1 since it had that glitch that caused the the rundata to become invalid. I did share that script on my magazine in kbin.run and kbin.social unfortunately both are defunct but I could always share it somewhere else or make a community where people ask for help with installing stuff and people make a script for it like /c/makemeascript or something. I will have a look at the affinity suite and see what steps it takes to see if It is something I am skilled enough to automate.
I get you, but relying on Microsoft not doing any anticonsumer decisions is like hoping Adobe will suddenly respect their users… It won’t happen and even if it did it’ll be short lived, it just won’t get you anywhere.
I use Bazzite (which is steam now but community maintained for more PCs) for my htpc and PopOS for my main PC, both play every game I can throw at it. Maybe it’s time to try it out. I started with a windows dual boot and found myself using it less and less, until just a couple months ago I deleted windows completely
I would not recommend Bazzite to anyone who already complains about software tinkering in regular distros. Immutable distros are very much incompatible with a lot of shit - basically almost anything that is not in their regular repos or on Flathub, and it is an absolute pain in the ass to get those type of applications running on it.
I agree installing something that isn’t super popular can be a bit harder on immutables. But I think especially on Bazzite the toolimg with distrobox is really good. And most non-technical users will probably find all they need as a flatpak anyway.
I recently tried Bazzite, and I have to agree. Switching from a traditional Linux distro to an immutable distro is harder than switching from Windows to Linux. I’m not kidding. When it comes to immutability, my experience can be split into two general cases:
I have yet to encounter a scenario where immutability offered a tangible benefit. The supposed advantages seem rather abstract. I can’t break my system? Okay…but…well, I already had snapper for the rare occasions when something got royally borked. This is a problem that has already been solved without major compromises, so why are we now compromising so much to solve it again?
It comes with 4 different package management systems (or 6 if you count Distrobox and Waydroid), and they all come with big caveats. I’ve had to reboot more in the past week than I previously had in the past year on Debian, because every time I need to install something from the main Fedora repo with rpm-ostree (which has been many times already), it needs to reboot. They recommend against using rpm-ostree, but there is no reasonable alternative for a rather wide array of software. It’s either rpm-ostree or build a whole mess of things from source and manage them manually. Both options suck very hard.
Still, overall, Bazzite delivers. Everything you see on their web site works out of the box. It’s hard to recommend, but it’s also hard to criticize. I’ve never had a smoother gaming experience, and this is the first time I’ve ever had to spend zero minutes configuring my GPU drivers (outside of macOS, anyway). You get CUDA and ROCm out of the box. You get the latest drivers. It’s awesome.
If you’re wondering if an immutable distro is right for you, the answer is probably “no”. But if you’re up for the, erm, “adventure” of learning this new paradigm, Bazzite fucking rocks.
Huh? ROCm is not working for me at all so far. I’ve tried to get it to work with Koboldcpp (which I have to build in a distrobox for it to even run, but then it only runs in software / cpu mode), tried LM Studio (which is easy to install, but again, no ROCm / gpu support detected), and I tried Krita’s diffusion implementation (again, only cpu working). This and the fact that I can’t get Mullvad to run are my biggest pet peeves so far.
Ironically, I decided to try it, despite my already existing skepticism beforehand, because TimeShift managed to break my post update broken system even further to the point where I couldn’t figure out if it is even salvageable (definitely not for me though). I can’t go back to Windows but I also still have not really found a good distro for me yet.
Hmm, I’ll have to double-check it on my build. Pretty sure it was working, but it’s possible I was only getting OpenCL or Vulkan acceleration. Out of curiosity, what’s your GPU model? I think only the 7900XT[X] is officially supported for ROCm.
RX 6650 XT. And no, all RDNA 2 cards support ROCm. I literally had it running on my previous distro. Was a pain to install with all its dependencies and building the tools properly, since you often had to specify the model, but it was doable. On Bazzite it just seems impossible for me.
Seconded to Bazzite. I just installed it on my Steam Deck and I’m surprised at how well it works as a desktop too. Not actually planning on using it as a desktop though it’s nice to know the option is there.
I was a windows only person forever Ubuntu Linux is way easier than I thought. Most things have a decent Linux version now & idk… if it doesn’t it’s not worth it.
Months and months and I haven’t looked back 🤷♂️ So. Maybe you could do that too?
Would games with anticheat work in a windows 10 vm? I am not interested in games that go out of their way to not work in wine but if it works in a vm of windows 10 you might be able to use that for gaming and whatever host os for your web browser emails etc.
No. They don’t and they wouldn’t.
damn that sucks anticheat has gotten out of hand.
If you know what you’re doing yes (not guaranteed to work in all games), but you’re always at constant threat of being potentially banned.
The info is hard to find but I assure you tons of people play anticheat games in VMs all the time. I personally avoid those games so I don’t know the specifics of all the tricks they do to hide the VM.
Being it’s a VM I could see some people just restoring from a template if they get banned and not really caring. No way to be hardware banned afaik.
This VM detection and VM anti detection is a reguarly evolving arms race, and some games invest a LOT more effort into staying on top of it than others.
Besides what other users said: if you feel comfortable with SteamOS you might want to give EndeavourOS and Manjaro a check - all three distros are based on Arch Linux, and while Arch is geared towards experienced users the later two try to “sell” it towards a wider audience.
Oh my god if you are a new user please do not go straight to Arch or Manjaro. By far the two distros most likely to breaky irreparably.
I’m not suggesting Arch, but Arch-based distros. Manjaro doesn’t break anywhere as often as Arch does.
…or alternatively go with Mint and re-learn how to handle the packages. pacman vs. APT is not a big deal anyway.
I just saw this in a post today about manjaro, it seems like endeavor is the better choice if you are concerned about stability in the long term: https://manjarno.pages.dev/
Discord works great on Linux nowadays. Depending on the game, anti-cheat might also be fine. I play Helldivers 2 without any issues. It’s fine if you don’t have the oomph, but Pop_OS and Bazzite are both super solid ditros with a gaming focus. I have been using Pop as my only OS on my desktop for months now and really only needed the command line for VPN access and Switch modding
And has done so for quite some time.
You can keep using win10 without security updates, just be smart about it. Have a good firewall, and just use it for gaming and bills or whatever and you’ll be fine
Linux mint looks like windows and is really easy to use
… until you inevitably need to use the shell. Linux, no matter the flavor, has been very easy to use in the 22 years that I’ve tried to use it - until you need to dig ever so slightly deeper for something and then it very much isn’t. I started out with a Knoppix live-CD back in 2002. Remember that distro?
What kind of task made you use the shell in Linux Mint (and i only know Mint after 2021) ? Was it a common task a regular person would need to do, or was it a geek or pro task that regular people would not even know it exists ? I installed Nvidia drivers with a click-install GUI easier than the windows equivalent, the appstore that is only rivaled by Apple had every debian and flatpak program i searched, and all the configurations i could ever tweak are in the configurations manager (unlike the current Windows mess of control panel and worse control panel).
I started with a Knoppix-based distro, called Kurumin. KDE 3 was the rage back then!
On your main point: the shell might be hard in the beginning, but for most things that you need to use the shell with, people on the internet already had the same issue and shared how to do it. Unless you’re actively trying to make something different, like I did with my audio switching script.
And even the sort of situation that you need to use the shell for decreased by a lot from back then to now.
It looks like your opinions about Linux are outdated and need an update.
I’ve got a Steam Deck and two servers running on Linux.
Thats what got me to start dual-booting and eventually nuke my Win XP install entirely.
It’s been all penguins ever since.
Power to them, until the software I use has 100% Linux compatibility then my hand is forced
deleted by creator
if you want to be part of a botnet in a few years, sure
being smart about it means not using an unsupported os
Or do not connect to the internet. I have Windows 98 SE installed in an emulator… I know it’s a bit old, but I don’t connect to internet. :D
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
haha in fact I was thinking of installing Windows 95 instead, because I wasn’t sure if Win 98 was too new. xD Its all just to play games.
Ditto - that W3.11 install is just because of the Windows Entertainment Pack, I love a few of the games in it (like Pipe Dream). I don’t even know if it’s able to connect to the internet!
if you don’t connect to the internet this feature doesn’t even do anything
I want to give you two likes.
Yeah nah, I’ve had updates turned off for years and have no issues. All I do is game on my windows comp
No issues that you know of.
I monitor my web traffic through my router and my processor and disk activity, I’m confident.
@Butterbee @tardigrada steamos is just manjaro with steam installed.
Arch.
Fortunately valve did not use the System Manjaro provides. This would have been a very stupid business decision.
StreamOS is plain Arch
If you need to use abusive windows software while retaining some privacy you really have 2 options:
Have a separate PC with windows and your games installed. Isolate your activities so all your normal work and personal stuff is on linux, and then you switch input on your display, or use sunshine/moonlight to access windows when you want to.
Use linux and do all your gaming etc. in a windows VM. This is what I do but it is not easy to set up, if you’re interested in this idea keep it in mind and come back to it later.
If you’re using VM hostile software though which it sounds like you are, #2 becomes even more complicated so I say bite the bullet and do #1.
If I were to speculate, they are waiting for the NVK (Open source NVIDIA driver) to be more mature. So, they wouldn’t have to release two versions and wouldn’t depend on NVIDIA to update their driver to work with software the Steam Deck uses. I.E. Steam Deck uses gamescope for everything outside of Desktop mode. NVIDIA’s driver didn’t work with it until 2 months after the Steam Deck release. Even though it had existed for years prior.
The whole Recall thing is what finally made me get off my lazy ass and make the jump to Linux. I chose PopOS, and I’ve been very impressed with the out-of-the-box experience. Between Steam and Lutris, I can play just about any game I want to.
It feels like I actually own my laptop now.
I have been using Linux off and on for 25 years (using the server pretty consistently, but always hedged with the desktop for various reasons). Since Proton and GE-Proton allow every game I want to play to work in Linux, back when Recall was first announced, I decided to finally stop hedging and went all in on the Linux desktop.
And I’m not going back. Everything is working for me and Microsoft can screw off if they think I’m going to allow such blatant spyware in my house. Their telemetry was always suspect, but this is now overt despite any assurances they attempt to make.
Edit>> And their “oh you can uninstall Recall” isn’t trustworthy when they will easily reinstall it with a Windows update (they have done this in the past with other software — notably Edge and Teams).
Thanks, ill stick with snipping tool
Using the snipping tool manually every second seems like a lot of work /s
No that sucks too. Just use flameshot instead
Or greenshot, is also quite versatile
deleted by creator