EDIT: Getting a ton of great responses thanks everyone <3 Once this is up for 24 hours or so I’ll make another edit summarizing everyone’s recs for future reference. Keep ‘em coming!
TL;DR Have any recs for non-Apple phones/laptops that have lifespans of at least 5+ years?
Wanted to get everyone’s opinion on want brands/products have worked for them. I’m lightly techy and not afraid to put some effort in, but also don’t want to build everything from scratch. I think Apple’s products are often anti-consumer, anti-privacy, anti-yadda yadda yadda.
At the same time, with both phones and laptops, I’ve found my Apple products to have double or even triple the lifespan of any other brand. I did my research and bought a $1000+ HP laptop with Ryzen7 a little over two years ago, and due to a flaw in the hinge which is now subject to a class action lawsuit, the screen has cracked and it’s mostly unusable. Other purchase haven’t failed quite that dramatically but don’t tend to last as long. On the other hand, my or my partner’s old Macbooks and iPhones are easily seeing 5+ years of use in addition to software updates.
Fair enough, you’re right they were great. Tbf everything up until the 2015 models were solid, as they were somewhat upgradable. Though, I’ve got a new M1 MAX and it’s easily the best laptop I’ve ever owned!
Performance wise, sure… but I also believe that’s the model that, if you’re lucky, will fry itself to 100% uselessness, and make your data completely unrecoverable.
If you must use a MacBook, keep backups, and keep AppleCare on it. Just consider it your apple device subscription.
I would really consider to get a fairphone if they had a smaller variant. Lately I’ve grown tired of only having huge phones and I don’t mind making some hardware sacrifices if I can use it comfortably.
The Asus Zenfone 10 was a good candidate, but their bootloader unlocking tool is still down, so you may be locked to only 2 years of OS updates
Dude did you get the HP Envy x360 too? My hinge failed a year in, I got the panel replaced, a year later the hinge fails again. My screen hasn’t cracked but I can’t close the laptop anymore… Gonna get a Thinkpad L14 and hope it holds up a bit better, since Thinkpads are known for decent build quality.
YES, it was super disappointing because otherwise it was a solid laptop. Cracked the corner of my screen and is basically non-portable now. Currently have it hooked up to an external monitor and keyboard just to make it until I can get a new laptop.
Read up on it and apparently it’s been a huge issue in HP’s build quality since at least 2017. There’s a class action lawsuit you can sign up for and hopefully be compensated in some way.
Man HP just doesn’t know how to make hinges anymore - I’ve had the hinge on two different consumer-grade HP laptops crap out within a few months/years over the past decade!
I mean, if we’re going by anecdotes, on average, most gear will last 5 years more often than not. I still have my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 that’s still working, just that it’s sorely obsolete on the software side. Another even more extreme example: I also have a Samsung i600 that’s also still working, and only recently has the battery started showing signs of bloating. That’s a 15+ year-old phone!
The several thousand laptops the charity I worked for (and still volunteer for sometimes) give out yearly also indicate that plenty of laptops will make it past the 5 year mark. Until last year we were still giving out 6th gen Intel laptops.
Works as well as ublock origin, which I use on my PC.
Don’t get me wrong I would never advice anyone to use a Macbook over a PC. There are some people who are embedded in their ecosystem, but generally they are expensive to buy and expensive to repair machines. But not having a decent adblock is not one of the reasons I would use.
There’s a decade-old Windows 10 machine around here that says otherwise.
And even older Linux machines.
And their hardware still works.
There’s also a MacBook that started falling apart a couple of years after purchase, and an iPhone whose battery life has gone to hell in only a couple of years (meanwhile, some even-older Pixel 3as are still running like champs).
God its like battle of the neckbeards, “quite incorrect kind sir, MacBooks run for years, challenge me again and I will make you rue the day! I tip my fedora to you sir! Good day!”
I am a source. Over the last few decades, most computers and phones around here worked fine throughout their service lives and either are still in service or were replaced because they became obsolete, but about half of the Apples suffered hardware failure of some kind—two Macs died, one MacBook’s video cuts out if the lid is opened more than a couple of inches and its keyboard is very glitchy, and one iPhone’s battery life has become terrible despite reporting 90% battery health. Seriously not impressed with Apple hardware.
I’m typing this on a ten year MacBook Pro that is running a currently supported version of MacOS and runs as fast as the day I bought it. I have two MacBook Airs that are eleven years old and still in secondary service. I have a pile of Dell and Lenovo Windows laptops of similar age that can still run but are basically doorstops or suitable for beater Linux or BSD machines, definitely not daily drivers.
Lucky you, I guess, because I sure haven’t had such good fortune.
that is running a currently supported version of MacOS
How is that possible? The almost-dead MacBook I mentioned is younger than yours and is stuck on Monterey.
and runs as fast as the day I bought it.
Probably. I didn’t say anything about how fast they are, because all common platforms in use today still run reasonably well on decade-old hardware.
If it had 10ish GB of RAM, at least. Browsers eat RAM like popcorn.
I have a pile of Dell and Lenovo Windows laptops of similar age that can still run but are basically doorstops or suitable for beater Linux or BSD machines, definitely not daily drivers.
I’m guessing you didn’t pay $2500 for them, though. That’s down to specs, not manufacturer. Apple hardware is almost invariably high-spec and therefore quite fast, but Apple thankfully doesn’t have a monopoly on fast computers.
Okay i’m not sure how much + is in your 1000$ and obviously there’s a manufacturing defect at olay here.
But man a MacBook is 2000$+
I have heard this argument too often unfortunately:
Context: they bought a 300$ Samsung phone and expected it to perform the same as their previous 800$ iPhone…
And this just sounds too similar.
“I previously had a 2000$+ device, now I bought a 1000$+ one and it doesn’t perform the same.” Except for the part where it’s also a shitty brand and the device had a manufacturing defect.
I’m no apple shill, but every Samsung I’ve had felt great for a few months. And rapidly started to run like absolute shit. Then I swore off them for a couple of years, and came back when everyone was like “this one’s different, it’s not like the ones before” and then I had the same issue. So I got a Pixel, and that was so much better software wise. But that pixel 2 had a design defect that saw lots of devices having GPS problems and that was annoying as hell when I was trying to do Uber.
My past 2 phones have been iPhones. Not perfect, I miss lots of the customization and developer level control over stuff… but my phone works, reliably. I was pissed about throttlegate , I had one of those phones affected, but the phone was like 4/5 years old… and I decided that my experience with other phones was worse, and got another iPhone.
I’m feeling the need to upgrade again, and while I can’t endorse a lot of the anti-consumer shit apple does… I need a reliable phone. So, hopefully there’s another option out there for me.
Honestly I had a OnePlus 6T for 4 years and after that started feeling slightly slow and i need it for testing at work, I now have a Pixel 7. Both the 6T and the pixel are great phones. My only regret is my own fault, i want to have a telephoto camera but thought that it’s not worth buying the pixel 7 pro for…
There’s many good options out there. But i admit they are harder to find. It’s not “buy iPhone” and be done with it.
But honestly every Apple device i’ve used in the past made me dislike Apples software more and more. It’s fine as long as you aren’t used to anything else and aren’t a Poweruser i guess. But there’s just so many weird decisions in the software. And it’s all locked down to hell.
I’ll have to look into the latest androids, but I’m sure the only one that’s really a contender will be the latest Pixel. I love the option to use Graphene OS also.
Idk all the particulars, I just know my S7 is still not bootloader unlockable, and pretty sure previous galaxy phones weren’t either. That was my last Samsung. Not sure if this was a US thing, a T-Mobile/Sprint think (who I had back then), or a Samsung thing. But HTC and Pixel phones seemed to always be unlockable.
Older devices are harder to bootloader unlock, but nowadays they make it easier. My Verizon Note 3’s unlocked too. The carrier usually makes it harder.
I buy a lot of my laptops from Dell Outlet. Extremely good for the price and I haven’t had a single one die on me yet - and the first was bought 13 years ago!
My Lenovo Legion laptop is going strong for 5+ years now, also a Nokia smartphone is 3+ already. Had terrible experience with ASUS and HP laptops in the past and had to change them after 2-3 years of use.
Side note, I have such mixed feelings on HP. I have only anecdotal things to say, so please keep that in mind!
I bought a budget HP Pavilion back in 2020, for a similar reason to you, because of the Ryzen setup. It sees use 4-5 times a week. And I have to say… I love it.
The build quality is, in my opinion, outstanding for a budget ($600) laptop. Its metal, solid, with almost no noticable keyboard flex. It feels so much better than both Dells my wife and I use for work. And the keyboard is actually my favorite of all the boards in my house.
My family has always had new tech coming in and out of the house and one of the longest lasting devices we had was an HP 2-In-1.
I don’t support their scummy software practices (shoutout brother printers). But for the most part every piece of HP tech I’ve bought has been average or above. But online they’re somewhat universally panned. Its interesting.
I would have agreed until the hinge broke through my HP Envy x360 screen :-(
Not much of a warning before it happened either, I would look into your model to see if that’s a recurring issue. Apparently you can loosen the tension in the screw on the hinge ahead of time to help avoid it eventually snapping. Good luck either way!
This is just in my limited experience, I work as a tech for an MSP and I’ve generally seen HPs fail more so than other brands (not by a wide margin but I wouldn’t buy a HP).
The other device we see fail more is Microsoft Surfaces, especially the tablets. I love the form factor and what Microsoft goes for with them but I’d never buy one purely on the reliability concerns I have, and (with a couple of exceptions) terrible repairability.
Any laptop designed for enterprise like Lenovo Thinkpad or hp elitebook/ProBook
Your laptop was an HP pavilion, right? Those are designed to barely last the warranty period. Their engineers on this product line have a long experience of carefully choosing plastics that will degrade within 24 months
IMHO MacBooks are super overrated. OS support is not as long as normal computers (5 years instead of “indefinite”) and they still have hardware flaws to hinges and keyboard
IMHO MacBooks are super overrated. OS support is not as long as normal computers (5 years instead of “indefinite”) and they still have hardware flaws to hinges and keyboard
And batteries. Swollen batteries in MacBooks were very common at my work. I have never seen it in any other laptop but Desktop Support would just react to it with ‘o, another one’.
HP’s consumer side definitely declined rapidly in quality over the last 10-15 years - had an HP that needed repairs after a few months back in '14 whereas I’ve got a Pavilion from '04 or so that’s still going!
it varies , I had 2015 zbook, HP repaired it under warranty about 4 times for ongoing undiagnosable video failures. (At end it had new display and display cable, new GPU, new mobo and new keyboard, since they could not locate what was triggering display problem) However 2017 Zbook still chugging alomg with 0 issues.
I don’t currently use macOS, but macOS support is typically about 7 years, sometimes up to 10. Apple supports the 3 latest versions of its operating system.
What are you talking about? You can take a Pentium 4 from twenty years ago and install latest windows 10. Microsoft releases a new version every 6 to 12 months but the computer updates automatically. Of course it makes no sense for them to continue supporting an old version that anyway everyone can update from without issues
And once apple decided the os is not compatible, your computer is on death row. Latest apps won’t run. Ok, can get security updates, but you needed to run latest final cut pro x? Bad luck, insert credit card and purchase new Mac
So I’ve only somewhat recently got into the Apple ecosystem, but I can tell you that once a macOS version loses support it’s technically on death row but nowhere near as dramatic as you mention.
I recently daily drove a Mac running macOS Catalina (2019) and I was surprised that it still ran everything I needed for my IT degree (Zoom, Office 365 suite, VSCode, Signal, Tailscale, etc.) and the only real issue I noticed was Apple’s Xcode not being compatible.
I also own a Mac mini 2012 with i5/8GB, and while I don’t use it often, my parents daily drive that as a smart TV and web browsing machine with no real issues at all. The last official version of macOS on it was Catalina, but I used community patches to push it up to Monterey (2021) and it’s totally fine.
I think when you own and actually use a Mac, you will find in its own way, that they do last longer than Windows equivalents. I have a 2012 Latitude with i5/8GB and yes I could run the latest Win10 natively (but not Win11 without hacks) but I don’t think it exactly cuts the mustard anymore, and I think most people who would use it would generally agree. Given its age I would just Linux it up if I wanted to daily drive it.
For phones 5+ years of updates is good compared to the alternatives, and is why I have one. For a computer, on the other hand, it’s just not very impressive. Perhaps FairPhones come close (don’t know how long their software is supported but their selling point is longevity), but their specs aren’t that impressive. On the flip side you get something repairable.
MacBooks are often built better with higher quality materials than many other laptops, but it is essentially a computer. Most computers that have high enough specs will always run the latest version of most Linux distributions or Windows barring any need for weird drivers from the past century. Feels a little iffy to have a perfectly good computer that won’t update software anymore just because. Up until recently you could just install some Linux OS on your old MacBooks when it went out of support but honestly I don’t know whether you can still do that after they started making non-x86 stuff.
With all that said, haven’t seen many laptops physically outlive MacBooks’ updates. With the exception of some ThinkPads and possibly some XPS models. Plastic laptops with plastic hinges tend to struggle keeping up, especially if the display is on the larger side. A large gaming laptop living the life of a typical MacBook, going to cafes and university in a backpack every day is probably gonna have more stress on hinges etc.
As for HP I have only heard bad stuff about them for the last 10 years or so. Don’t think I’ll buy stuff from them due to their evil printers that won’t scan without ink etc.
Not many specific recommendations here but just some observations I have made. Hope it’s helpful.
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I would not trust apple products. Self cracking display on laptop? Updates that slow down devices on purpose? no, thanks
My key caps have been falling off my work provided M1 Air. Thankfully, the keyboard is so crap I can barely tell the difference.
Ended up repurposing an old XPS 13 that I found in a supply closet as my dev box.
Wayland+Sway == Infinitely better experience
Never had any issues on any of my macbooks and I’ve had them for over 5 years each. My 2012 mbp still runs as good as the day I got it!
I was referring mainly to newer models, the older line around 2012 was really good.
Didn’t Apple get hit with a class action lawsuit over their 2011 Macbook Pros frying themselves?
You are right, I didn’t know about this.
Fair enough, you’re right they were great. Tbf everything up until the 2015 models were solid, as they were somewhat upgradable. Though, I’ve got a new M1 MAX and it’s easily the best laptop I’ve ever owned!
Performance wise, sure… but I also believe that’s the model that, if you’re lucky, will fry itself to 100% uselessness, and make your data completely unrecoverable.
If you must use a MacBook, keep backups, and keep AppleCare on it. Just consider it your apple device subscription.
I can’t say the same about my 2012 mbp, it’s been basically useless for like 5 years now.
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Fairphone is also 100% repairable like the framework. 5 year warranty and software support.
Edit: The rumor is that the Fairphone 5 will be announced next week
I would really consider to get a fairphone if they had a smaller variant. Lately I’ve grown tired of only having huge phones and I don’t mind making some hardware sacrifices if I can use it comfortably.
The Asus Zenfone 10 was a good candidate, but their bootloader unlocking tool is still down, so you may be locked to only 2 years of OS updates
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Dude did you get the HP Envy x360 too? My hinge failed a year in, I got the panel replaced, a year later the hinge fails again. My screen hasn’t cracked but I can’t close the laptop anymore… Gonna get a Thinkpad L14 and hope it holds up a bit better, since Thinkpads are known for decent build quality.
YES, it was super disappointing because otherwise it was a solid laptop. Cracked the corner of my screen and is basically non-portable now. Currently have it hooked up to an external monitor and keyboard just to make it until I can get a new laptop.
Read up on it and apparently it’s been a huge issue in HP’s build quality since at least 2017. There’s a class action lawsuit you can sign up for and hopefully be compensated in some way.
Mine works perfectly otherwise too, thinking of giving it to my grandma so she can use it at home. Huge shame…
I knew about the class action lawsuit but I live outside of the US :C
Good luck getting a new laptop, hope it lasts!
Aw super sweet of you to think of your grandma.
Thank you! HP Envy x360 design flaw solidarity, friend ✊
Man HP just doesn’t know how to make hinges anymore - I’ve had the hinge on two different consumer-grade HP laptops crap out within a few months/years over the past decade!
I mean, if we’re going by anecdotes, on average, most gear will last 5 years more often than not. I still have my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 that’s still working, just that it’s sorely obsolete on the software side. Another even more extreme example: I also have a Samsung i600 that’s also still working, and only recently has the battery started showing signs of bloating. That’s a 15+ year-old phone!
The several thousand laptops the charity I worked for (and still volunteer for sometimes) give out yearly also indicate that plenty of laptops will make it past the 5 year mark. Until last year we were still giving out 6th gen Intel laptops.
Whack LineageOS on that puppy!
Similar longevity to Apple products isn’t a high bar.
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'Fraid so.
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Being blasted with ads is your idea of a better experience? You and I clearly don’t live in the same reality.
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The browser. You are forced to use Safari. Safari does not allow extensions or otherwise block ads. I use Firefox with uBlock Origin on my phone.
https://adblockplus.org/
Works as well as ublock origin, which I use on my PC.
Don’t get me wrong I would never advice anyone to use a Macbook over a PC. There are some people who are embedded in their ecosystem, but generally they are expensive to buy and expensive to repair machines. But not having a decent adblock is not one of the reasons I would use.
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There’s a decade-old Windows 10 machine around here that says otherwise.
And even older Linux machines.
And their hardware still works.
There’s also a MacBook that started falling apart a couple of years after purchase, and an iPhone whose battery life has gone to hell in only a couple of years (meanwhile, some even-older Pixel 3as are still running like champs).
Apple hardware is junk.
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My point is that most computers last longer than Apple ones.
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God its like battle of the neckbeards, “quite incorrect kind sir, MacBooks run for years, challenge me again and I will make you rue the day! I tip my fedora to you sir! Good day!”
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I am a source. Over the last few decades, most computers and phones around here worked fine throughout their service lives and either are still in service or were replaced because they became obsolete, but about half of the Apples suffered hardware failure of some kind—two Macs died, one MacBook’s video cuts out if the lid is opened more than a couple of inches and its keyboard is very glitchy, and one iPhone’s battery life has become terrible despite reporting 90% battery health. Seriously not impressed with Apple hardware.
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I’m typing this on a ten year MacBook Pro that is running a currently supported version of MacOS and runs as fast as the day I bought it. I have two MacBook Airs that are eleven years old and still in secondary service. I have a pile of Dell and Lenovo Windows laptops of similar age that can still run but are basically doorstops or suitable for beater Linux or BSD machines, definitely not daily drivers.
Lucky you, I guess, because I sure haven’t had such good fortune.
How is that possible? The almost-dead MacBook I mentioned is younger than yours and is stuck on Monterey.
Probably. I didn’t say anything about how fast they are, because all common platforms in use today still run reasonably well on decade-old hardware.
If it had 10ish GB of RAM, at least. Browsers eat RAM like popcorn.
I’m guessing you didn’t pay $2500 for them, though. That’s down to specs, not manufacturer. Apple hardware is almost invariably high-spec and therefore quite fast, but Apple thankfully doesn’t have a monopoly on fast computers.
thinkpad T series laptop
Okay i’m not sure how much + is in your 1000$ and obviously there’s a manufacturing defect at olay here. But man a MacBook is 2000$+ I have heard this argument too often unfortunately:
I tried Android once and it was horrible so i just went back to iPhone©™ and now everything is great again.
Context: they bought a 300$ Samsung phone and expected it to perform the same as their previous 800$ iPhone…
And this just sounds too similar. “I previously had a 2000$+ device, now I bought a 1000$+ one and it doesn’t perform the same.” Except for the part where it’s also a shitty brand and the device had a manufacturing defect.
I’m no apple shill, but every Samsung I’ve had felt great for a few months. And rapidly started to run like absolute shit. Then I swore off them for a couple of years, and came back when everyone was like “this one’s different, it’s not like the ones before” and then I had the same issue. So I got a Pixel, and that was so much better software wise. But that pixel 2 had a design defect that saw lots of devices having GPS problems and that was annoying as hell when I was trying to do Uber.
My past 2 phones have been iPhones. Not perfect, I miss lots of the customization and developer level control over stuff… but my phone works, reliably. I was pissed about throttlegate , I had one of those phones affected, but the phone was like 4/5 years old… and I decided that my experience with other phones was worse, and got another iPhone.
I’m feeling the need to upgrade again, and while I can’t endorse a lot of the anti-consumer shit apple does… I need a reliable phone. So, hopefully there’s another option out there for me.
Honestly I had a OnePlus 6T for 4 years and after that started feeling slightly slow and i need it for testing at work, I now have a Pixel 7. Both the 6T and the pixel are great phones. My only regret is my own fault, i want to have a telephoto camera but thought that it’s not worth buying the pixel 7 pro for… There’s many good options out there. But i admit they are harder to find. It’s not “buy iPhone” and be done with it.
But honestly every Apple device i’ve used in the past made me dislike Apples software more and more. It’s fine as long as you aren’t used to anything else and aren’t a Poweruser i guess. But there’s just so many weird decisions in the software. And it’s all locked down to hell.
I’ll have to look into the latest androids, but I’m sure the only one that’s really a contender will be the latest Pixel. I love the option to use Graphene OS also.
Just unlock the damn bootloader and install a custom ROM.
Samsungs (at least the ones I had) don’t have unlockable bootloaders. And the pixel, well custom Roms don’t fix hardware issues.
Samsungs have unlockable bootloaders, hell, I’m typing this from a SM-P610 running LineageOS 20.
Idk all the particulars, I just know my S7 is still not bootloader unlockable, and pretty sure previous galaxy phones weren’t either. That was my last Samsung. Not sure if this was a US thing, a T-Mobile/Sprint think (who I had back then), or a Samsung thing. But HTC and Pixel phones seemed to always be unlockable.
Older devices are harder to bootloader unlock, but nowadays they make it easier. My Verizon Note 3’s unlocked too. The carrier usually makes it harder.
ThinkPads are considered the Windows/Linux equivalent of Apple laptops in business settings.
And owned by Lenovo. Who in the past loaded unremovable bloatware reinstallers into their BIOS so that fresh installs always reloaded their shit.
If you want a Linux laptop, System76 is your best bet.
Superfish. Never forget. Literally BIOS-level malware, and people still buy things from Lenovo.
I mean, they only put that on consumer grade devices. lol
So? Why would you trust a company to not put it on ThinkPads as well if they think they could get away with it?
Or Tuxedo for people, who live in Europe.
I love my x1 from lenovo. No bloat at all and excellent customer service. I broke a USB port and they sent a guy to my house to fix it.
I buy a lot of my laptops from Dell Outlet. Extremely good for the price and I haven’t had a single one die on me yet - and the first was bought 13 years ago!
My Lenovo Legion laptop is going strong for 5+ years now, also a Nokia smartphone is 3+ already. Had terrible experience with ASUS and HP laptops in the past and had to change them after 2-3 years of use.
Side note, I have such mixed feelings on HP. I have only anecdotal things to say, so please keep that in mind!
I bought a budget HP Pavilion back in 2020, for a similar reason to you, because of the Ryzen setup. It sees use 4-5 times a week. And I have to say… I love it.
The build quality is, in my opinion, outstanding for a budget ($600) laptop. Its metal, solid, with almost no noticable keyboard flex. It feels so much better than both Dells my wife and I use for work. And the keyboard is actually my favorite of all the boards in my house.
My family has always had new tech coming in and out of the house and one of the longest lasting devices we had was an HP 2-In-1.
I don’t support their scummy software practices (shoutout brother printers). But for the most part every piece of HP tech I’ve bought has been average or above. But online they’re somewhat universally panned. Its interesting.
I would have agreed until the hinge broke through my HP Envy x360 screen :-(
Not much of a warning before it happened either, I would look into your model to see if that’s a recurring issue. Apparently you can loosen the tension in the screw on the hinge ahead of time to help avoid it eventually snapping. Good luck either way!
This is just in my limited experience, I work as a tech for an MSP and I’ve generally seen HPs fail more so than other brands (not by a wide margin but I wouldn’t buy a HP).
The other device we see fail more is Microsoft Surfaces, especially the tablets. I love the form factor and what Microsoft goes for with them but I’d never buy one purely on the reliability concerns I have, and (with a couple of exceptions) terrible repairability.
Pixel + Graphene OS is such a good combination! I’ve been using it for months now and I feel free with it.
I wish small pixels were still a thing, now they are all 6inch+
Framework definitely seems the way to go if you want a long-lived laptop - as long as you live in one of the few countries that they sell to!
Any laptop designed for enterprise like Lenovo Thinkpad or hp elitebook/ProBook
Your laptop was an HP pavilion, right? Those are designed to barely last the warranty period. Their engineers on this product line have a long experience of carefully choosing plastics that will degrade within 24 months
IMHO MacBooks are super overrated. OS support is not as long as normal computers (5 years instead of “indefinite”) and they still have hardware flaws to hinges and keyboard
And batteries. Swollen batteries in MacBooks were very common at my work. I have never seen it in any other laptop but Desktop Support would just react to it with ‘o, another one’.
HP’s consumer side definitely declined rapidly in quality over the last 10-15 years - had an HP that needed repairs after a few months back in '14 whereas I’ve got a Pavilion from '04 or so that’s still going!
it varies , I had 2015 zbook, HP repaired it under warranty about 4 times for ongoing undiagnosable video failures. (At end it had new display and display cable, new GPU, new mobo and new keyboard, since they could not locate what was triggering display problem) However 2017 Zbook still chugging alomg with 0 issues.
I don’t currently use macOS, but macOS support is typically about 7 years, sometimes up to 10. Apple supports the 3 latest versions of its operating system.
Mainstream Windows support seems to be about 1-3 years.
What are you talking about? You can take a Pentium 4 from twenty years ago and install latest windows 10. Microsoft releases a new version every 6 to 12 months but the computer updates automatically. Of course it makes no sense for them to continue supporting an old version that anyway everyone can update from without issues
And once apple decided the os is not compatible, your computer is on death row. Latest apps won’t run. Ok, can get security updates, but you needed to run latest final cut pro x? Bad luck, insert credit card and purchase new Mac
So I’ve only somewhat recently got into the Apple ecosystem, but I can tell you that once a macOS version loses support it’s technically on death row but nowhere near as dramatic as you mention.
I recently daily drove a Mac running macOS Catalina (2019) and I was surprised that it still ran everything I needed for my IT degree (Zoom, Office 365 suite, VSCode, Signal, Tailscale, etc.) and the only real issue I noticed was Apple’s Xcode not being compatible.
I also own a Mac mini 2012 with i5/8GB, and while I don’t use it often, my parents daily drive that as a smart TV and web browsing machine with no real issues at all. The last official version of macOS on it was Catalina, but I used community patches to push it up to Monterey (2021) and it’s totally fine.
I think when you own and actually use a Mac, you will find in its own way, that they do last longer than Windows equivalents. I have a 2012 Latitude with i5/8GB and yes I could run the latest Win10 natively (but not Win11 without hacks) but I don’t think it exactly cuts the mustard anymore, and I think most people who would use it would generally agree. Given its age I would just Linux it up if I wanted to daily drive it.
You, in fact, cannot install Windows 10 on a Pentium 4.
Ok then an athlon64 from the year 2003
Oneplus phones are good. Beastly specs and run LineageOS. Also not too challenging or expensive to replace (most) parts.
For phones 5+ years of updates is good compared to the alternatives, and is why I have one. For a computer, on the other hand, it’s just not very impressive. Perhaps FairPhones come close (don’t know how long their software is supported but their selling point is longevity), but their specs aren’t that impressive. On the flip side you get something repairable.
MacBooks are often built better with higher quality materials than many other laptops, but it is essentially a computer. Most computers that have high enough specs will always run the latest version of most Linux distributions or Windows barring any need for weird drivers from the past century. Feels a little iffy to have a perfectly good computer that won’t update software anymore just because. Up until recently you could just install some Linux OS on your old MacBooks when it went out of support but honestly I don’t know whether you can still do that after they started making non-x86 stuff.
With all that said, haven’t seen many laptops physically outlive MacBooks’ updates. With the exception of some ThinkPads and possibly some XPS models. Plastic laptops with plastic hinges tend to struggle keeping up, especially if the display is on the larger side. A large gaming laptop living the life of a typical MacBook, going to cafes and university in a backpack every day is probably gonna have more stress on hinges etc.
As for HP I have only heard bad stuff about them for the last 10 years or so. Don’t think I’ll buy stuff from them due to their evil printers that won’t scan without ink etc.
Not many specific recommendations here but just some observations I have made. Hope it’s helpful.
I agree on HP printer subscription ink, that is an outright scam. But I have had an HP 2017 Zbook for daily use and travel and 0 issues.
Asahi Linux isn’t far off and I’m guessing it will be ready for prime time before anything Apple Silicon loses support.