Hanlon’s razor, but its interesting to imagine that some Russian, US, Israeli, Chinese, etc agents infiltrated management at appliance manufacturers and convinced them to make all their devices smart, just so they could build bigger botnets
So basically you paid money to store someone else’s oven. How long before we are installing vending machines in our kitchens instead of fridge and stove.
It’s only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won’t even ask anymore.
In the mean time, these things are usually programmed with minimal effort. I have to wonder if there’s an actual unlock process or if giving it a completely isolated subnet would satisfy the check.
It’s only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won’t even ask anymore.
Then it’s time to heat up the soldering iron and disable the wireless connectivity in hardware.
which is great until you realize that if it cant connect to a server somewhere to download the latest Ad manifest it crashes the OvenOS and now your warranty is void AND you can’t bake a cake.
doesn’t seem to have stopped them from locking functionality that does not require an internet conneciton behind an internet connection, so i don’t see why they would care.
At least an integrated modem wouldn’t set my local network at risk. They might still collect sensible data with microphones, cameras and share usage profiles etc. But from my perspective that’s at least technically decoupled from other devices.
that’s at least technically decoupled from other devices.
Not if these appliances come with Mesh networking capabilities (something commonly found on IoT devices). Technologies such as Mesh allows devices to connect between them, essentially forming a “mesh” of interconnected devices.
Oh no. I don’t be needin’ no internet enabled legislation! Good, old fahsioned, airgapped legislation was good enough before, and it’s good enough today!
My microwave is a 1977 Amanda Radarange. It can boil a cup of water in ⅕ of the time a modern microwave can.
Now granted, it has zero fancy settings and a simple number pad that does nothing but set how long you want the microwave to run.
But honestly, this simplicity is a large part of it’s charm. No connectivity needs, no features locked behind paywalls, no extraneous bullshit or never-used features. Just a tool that does only one thing, and does it exceptionally well.
I got a “retrowave” in mint green. It’s dumb, uses a turn dial to set the cook time, stands on little feet like it’s from Rocko’s Modern Life, and looks like it’s from the 50’s. Have a matching toaster and eventually want a matching fridge.
It’s been 4 years and no issues which is more than I can say about a lot of other new appliances we’ve gotten for the house.
For dumb appliances with a fun aesthetics look up 'retro (name of appliance here) and you’ll get all the brands who make stuff like that. It’s the only way I’ve been able to avoid smart garbage so far.
That’s fine if you like the appearance of “retro” appliances, but that is certainly not the only way to avoid smart devices. Most microwaves, toasters, etc sold are not smart devices.
The fridge will likely operate far less efficiently than a modern fridge unless you have it rebuilt.
With that said, a rebuilt fridge - with a more efficient cooling system and better insulation and all seals redone, etc. - does not cost significantly more than a new midrange fridge.
Well, most of the fridge is already there. You just need to disassemble, sandblast the metal and paint (if the paint is in poor condition), replace the insulation with closed-cell spray foam, replace the refrigeration system with a modern Freon-free system, reassemble and put new seals on.
An old fridge can be quite simple, structurally speaking. It’s in the 70s and 80s when fridges started getting compact, difficult to repair, and disposable.
Why the fuck does an oven have a touch screen? That’s a horrible idea. Good luck cleaning your kitchen without accidentally hitting “buttons” on the oven! And heaven forbid food splatter turns on your oven broiler.
I would hope it’s a special, heavy-duty kind at least.
I’ve seen an expensive microwave with a capacitive touch panel right above the door (and the door was the classic oven style, so attached by the bottom edge). If you ever had a phone with crappy moisture detection, you know where this is going.
You put your food in the microwave. Turn it on and let it heat the food up. Open the door, take the food out and close the door again. Congratulations, your microwave has probably just turned itself back on, because it detected the humid hot air rising from the briefly opened door as you touching the screen. And because most of the touch screen is “touchable”, there’s a pretty good chance this gust of humid air can successfully pick a cooking/heating mode and confirm it.
The microwave randomly navigating its own touch screen happened pretty much every time, passing all the menus and turning on was successful about 10% of the time.
In short, I wouldn’t expect a microwave interface to have any thought put into it.
Yeah, the touch screen is awful, but just try finding a decent induction range without one and without spending twice as much for the privilege. (It seems that induction ranges are the most popular for this unfortunate design trend.)There’s not really any choices out there. You can lock the screen, which is great for cleaning. Just don’t do that while you’re using the oven or range because it turns everything off and cancels the bake.
I do love everything else about my induction range though. Cold searing stuff is faster and easier to get right. I can bring a pot of water to a rolling boil in about 4 minutes.
I bought one of those ge induction ovens to swap out a gas one. The only smart feature I liked was the ability to turn my oven on to preheat from my phone. Guess what feature just doesn’t work no matter the tech support help i get with it.
I worked for a phone manufacturer a few years ago. We’d get callers who were referred to us by shitty IOT vendors who wanted to insist their buggy apps just didn’t work because our phone broke it and not because their crappy IOT “features” were clearly tossed together by lowest bidder contractors they stopped paying 2 years ago. The number of IOT devices I just referred the customer to the Google Play reviews and read them the first 5 reviews that all detail various bugs in the companion app was concerning to say the least
Good point. Not everyone swears like a trooper. I’m ex British army so can live with it. But I wouldn’t swear in mixed company or in front of my daughter, even though she is over 21.
To each his own, of course, but coy swearing is still swearing.
Actually I do sympathise. I swear too much (but not more than the average Aussie) and wish I could train myself to use some other intensifiers in my language but most of them lack intensity.
By Jove!
My word!
Sweet zombie Jesus!
Drokk!
It is an odd choice to argue over such a thing. No one was harmed in the making of the first comment. Or the second. If anything, that person is being completely reasonable instead of demanding what others should do.
My APAP machine has a sim card and unless I am careful to not disable airplane mode every time I start it up, it will send all of my health data to company that I have signed no agreement with.
I explicitly declined to agree to the privacy policy of the company that sold it to me.
If I find my data in a breach, lawyers will be involved.
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You didn’t buy an oven. You bought a node for someone else’s botnet.
Hanlon’s razor, but its interesting to imagine that some Russian, US, Israeli, Chinese, etc agents infiltrated management at appliance manufacturers and convinced them to make all their devices smart, just so they could build bigger botnets
Whenever someone designs or purchases a smart device, this is what they need to be told. Is it really worth the risk for potential harm?
So basically you paid money to store someone else’s oven. How long before we are installing vending machines in our kitchens instead of fridge and stove.
Straight out of Unauthorized Bread from Doctorow
Here’s a link to the story for those interested.
That’s an awesome idea. I’ll have my engineers build it into our next product line.
Stole it from my character in “Shadows of Doubt”
It’s only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won’t even ask anymore.
In the mean time, these things are usually programmed with minimal effort. I have to wonder if there’s an actual unlock process or if giving it a completely isolated subnet would satisfy the check.
Then it’s time to heat up the soldering iron and disable the wireless connectivity in hardware.
which is great until you realize that if it cant connect to a server somewhere to download the latest Ad manifest it crashes the OvenOS and now your warranty is void AND you can’t bake a cake.
In that case it would be unusable in any remote area without cell service too.
doesn’t seem to have stopped them from locking functionality that does not require an internet conneciton behind an internet connection, so i don’t see why they would care.
At least an integrated modem wouldn’t set my local network at risk. They might still collect sensible data with microphones, cameras and share usage profiles etc. But from my perspective that’s at least technically decoupled from other devices.
Not if these appliances come with Mesh networking capabilities (something commonly found on IoT devices). Technologies such as Mesh allows devices to connect between them, essentially forming a “mesh” of interconnected devices.
That’s a valid point indeed.
If you didn’t immediately take this back and demand a refund you’re part of the reason enshittification is getting worse
Or American with fuck all in the way of consumer rights, one of the two
99% of people couldn’t give less of a fuck. The only way we get out of this death spiral is with smart legislation.
Oh no. I don’t be needin’ no internet enabled legislation! Good, old fahsioned, airgapped legislation was good enough before, and it’s good enough today!
Yeah I would immediately return honestly, there are plenty other espresso makers that don’t require wifi
It’s an oven, old bean
This blender doesn’t actually make coffee. ☹️
Pfft maybe not the way you use it
They didn’t buy it. They bought a house that came with it.
Whose gonna pay the refund?
For context. Might be a bit less obvious to non native speakers, but I can understand how you might miss it
My microwave is a 1977 Amanda Radarange. It can boil a cup of water in ⅕ of the time a modern microwave can.
Now granted, it has zero fancy settings and a simple number pad that does nothing but set how long you want the microwave to run.
But honestly, this simplicity is a large part of it’s charm. No connectivity needs, no features locked behind paywalls, no extraneous bullshit or never-used features. Just a tool that does only one thing, and does it exceptionally well.
I got a “retrowave” in mint green. It’s dumb, uses a turn dial to set the cook time, stands on little feet like it’s from Rocko’s Modern Life, and looks like it’s from the 50’s. Have a matching toaster and eventually want a matching fridge.
It’s been 4 years and no issues which is more than I can say about a lot of other new appliances we’ve gotten for the house.
For dumb appliances with a fun aesthetics look up 'retro (name of appliance here) and you’ll get all the brands who make stuff like that. It’s the only way I’ve been able to avoid smart garbage so far.
That’s fine if you like the appearance of “retro” appliances, but that is certainly not the only way to avoid smart devices. Most microwaves, toasters, etc sold are not smart devices.
Eh, its a very easy way to avoid smart appliances and a surprising amount of people don’t know they exist.
If it’s not for you, that’s okay, but someone else might find it useful and maybe wants that aesthetic.
The fridge will likely operate far less efficiently than a modern fridge unless you have it rebuilt.
With that said, a rebuilt fridge - with a more efficient cooling system and better insulation and all seals redone, etc. - does not cost significantly more than a new midrange fridge.
Really!? That’s a bit of a life hack. Good to know.
Usually mass-produced is a fraction of the price of anything bespoke.
Well, most of the fridge is already there. You just need to disassemble, sandblast the metal and paint (if the paint is in poor condition), replace the insulation with closed-cell spray foam, replace the refrigeration system with a modern Freon-free system, reassemble and put new seals on.
An old fridge can be quite simple, structurally speaking. It’s in the 70s and 80s when fridges started getting compact, difficult to repair, and disposable.
Other than the frame, what components aren’t being replaced? I’ll admit my fridge knowledge is mostly theoretical.
Oh these are modern appliances with a retro aesthetic. Everything inside is all brand new including energy efficiency…just minus the smart features
what is that thing wired into a 600v line??
Maybe just one without proper breakers?
Does it let you control the power level at all? If it does then no issues. If it can’t, hardly an issue.
Yes! The Amandas were the best.
Your preference for someone to have the name Amanda seems like a rather oddly specific kink…
Why the fuck does an oven have a touch screen? That’s a horrible idea. Good luck cleaning your kitchen without accidentally hitting “buttons” on the oven! And heaven forbid food splatter turns on your oven broiler.
How about the motherboard dying before the oven does
I don’t love touch screens on ovens either, but you just press the lock button and then you can clean to your hearts content.
I would hope it’s a special, heavy-duty kind at least.
They’re on everything because it legitimately just is a good way to get lots and lots of controls and displays on a limited space.
I’ve seen an expensive microwave with a capacitive touch panel right above the door (and the door was the classic oven style, so attached by the bottom edge). If you ever had a phone with crappy moisture detection, you know where this is going.
You put your food in the microwave. Turn it on and let it heat the food up. Open the door, take the food out and close the door again. Congratulations, your microwave has probably just turned itself back on, because it detected the humid hot air rising from the briefly opened door as you touching the screen. And because most of the touch screen is “touchable”, there’s a pretty good chance this gust of humid air can successfully pick a cooking/heating mode and confirm it.
The microwave randomly navigating its own touch screen happened pretty much every time, passing all the menus and turning on was successful about 10% of the time.
In short, I wouldn’t expect a microwave interface to have any thought put into it.
Oh my god, that’s horrible.
Yeah, the touch screen is awful, but just try finding a decent induction range without one and without spending twice as much for the privilege. (It seems that induction ranges are the most popular for this unfortunate design trend.)There’s not really any choices out there. You can lock the screen, which is great for cleaning. Just don’t do that while you’re using the oven or range because it turns everything off and cancels the bake.
I do love everything else about my induction range though. Cold searing stuff is faster and easier to get right. I can bring a pot of water to a rolling boil in about 4 minutes.
Why the fuck can’t we make things hot without the internet? FFS
Fire: “I got you, bro.”
A fire is what you may get when a hacker decides to turn the oven on for you.
It’s like playing Zomboid, but you don’t actually have to break into the house to put your clothes in the oven and turn it on.
Closer to how the first Megaman Battle Network starts as the scenario cmnybo mentioned is exactly what happens.
That’s because air fryer.
There are no dumb air fryers, are there?
Mine doesn’t connect to anything AFAIK. Actually, maybe it has Bluetooth? I’ve never bothered with it, though.
Air fryer in this case just refers to the convection oven setting on the stove. It’s not a standalone air fryer.
I bought one of those ge induction ovens to swap out a gas one. The only smart feature I liked was the ability to turn my oven on to preheat from my phone. Guess what feature just doesn’t work no matter the tech support help i get with it.
I worked for a phone manufacturer a few years ago. We’d get callers who were referred to us by shitty IOT vendors who wanted to insist their buggy apps just didn’t work because our phone broke it and not because their crappy IOT “features” were clearly tossed together by lowest bidder contractors they stopped paying 2 years ago. The number of IOT devices I just referred the customer to the Google Play reviews and read them the first 5 reviews that all detail various bugs in the companion app was concerning to say the least
If they will be running a botnet with your net at least it should be a fair pay.
F&&& that. Send it back.
We can’t say the word “Fuck” here? Serious question; why did you self censor?
Do what you like, friend, as I did. Why? I don’t swear a lot in person, and for me, I communicate the same online and off.
Good point. Not everyone swears like a trooper. I’m ex British army so can live with it. But I wouldn’t swear in mixed company or in front of my daughter, even though she is over 21.
To each his own, of course, but coy swearing is still swearing.
Actually I do sympathise. I swear too much (but not more than the average Aussie) and wish I could train myself to use some other intensifiers in my language but most of them lack intensity. By Jove! My word! Sweet zombie Jesus! Drokk!
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It is an odd choice to argue over such a thing. No one was harmed in the making of the first comment. Or the second. If anything, that person is being completely reasonable instead of demanding what others should do.
removed by mod
Please say there isn’t a subscription
Stop! The MBAs can only get so erect
It’s so you can have the New Turkey Mode
They are smart because they know how to spy on you without telling you.
But they told me I can just not connect it to the internet and it’ll be just like any dumb device.
Eventually these things will come with modems built in so you can’t even do that.
My APAP machine has a sim card and unless I am careful to not disable airplane mode every time I start it up, it will send all of my health data to company that I have signed no agreement with.
I explicitly declined to agree to the privacy policy of the company that sold it to me.
If I find my data in a breach, lawyers will be involved.
Hopefully you don’t live in the US where your insurance company can buy that data and use it to deny you coverage or raise your rates.
They already do it with cars why not CPAP machines.
Cars already do that with having their own cell connection that you can’t turn off. It’s dystopian.