Seriously this was very surprising. I’ve been experimenting with GrayJay since it was announced and I largely think it’s a pretty sweet app. I know there are concerns over how it isn’t “true open source” but it’s a hell of a lot more open than ReVanced. Plus, I like the general design and philosophy of the app.
I updated the YouTube backend recently and to my surprise and delight they had added support for SponsorBlock. However, when I went to enable it, it warned me “turning this on harms creators” and made me click a box before I could continue.
Bruh, you’re literally an ad-blocking YouTube frontend. What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to be facilitating ad-blocking and then at the same time shame the end-user for using an extension which simply automates seeking ahead in videos. Are you seriously gonna tell me that even without Sponsorblock, if I skip ahead past the sponsored ad read in a video, that I’m “harming the creator”?
Bruh, you’re literally an ad-blocking YouTube frontend. What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to be facilitating ad-blocking and then at the same time shame the end-user for using an extension which simply automates seeking ahead in videos.
YouTube is a behemoth of a company so you’d expect most of the ads money to go to the creators but you can be sure it’s not.
They also demonetize videos for stupid reasons more and more, and they use their quasi monopole on the video hosting to push ads down our throats in many ways with less and less control over the type, placement or duration of the ads they greenlight because what are we gonna do? Go on vimeo or dailymotion?
On the other hand, sponsors pay the creators directly or through affiliated links, they work even if the video is demonetized, creators can decide whether or not they agree with the sponsor content and remain somewhat in control of how the sponsor sequence is gonna be in their video since they’re the ones making them.
Morally, you can decide you hate YouTube and its ads while still wanting to support the creators (or not) but all users are not on the same level of technological knowledge and might not know what sponsorblock is gonna block exactly (despite the name) or how to set it up.
For those users, I think it’s not a bad idea to have such a warning/opt-out step in the setup process.
This ignores the fact that these apps don’t have the functionality to tell YouTube a video or segment of a video has been watched, therefore they literally can’t make money off these users period, it’s just the way these clients work, they don’t send analytics data to YouTube, so they don’t count views. It’s as if the person paused the video, let it buffer all the way then clicked off without watching.
People can argue semantics about watching or not watching or what it means philosophically but in the end the views aren’t counted by the software on these apps, it doesn’t matter how much or how long you watch something it just doesn’t count the view, because they never receive any tracking data. So in that regard there really is no sense in shaming SponsorBlock usage, if it seems like a problem you shouldn’t be using these apps in the first place because they defeat the money-making part of the segments in and of themselves.
Eh, at least they added support for it. Good for them. Still looking at this app with some skepticism but so far seems to be doing what it sets out to do.
I think they said that they they technically don’t block ads. They just don’t implement them. If youtube were to somehow pack ads into the video stream, they wouldn’t go around it. Though I’m sure that in such case an adblock extension would pop up very fast.
Outside of his right to repair work I find most anything Rossmann gets involved in is questionable. He is a good example of someone that got popular for something they cared about and knew something about, then mistakenly got the idea that success meant they had valid opinions on other things they know nothing about.
Rossmann knows about laptop hardware repair and running a small business. But that doesn’t necessarily translate into being a knowledgeable voice in the software dev or large scale digital advertising industries.
He is just a mouthpiece for the company behind Greyjay, nothing more.
I’m inclined to agree. I respect the work he’s done for R2R, but I find his videos on New York commercial real estate to be incredibly cringe. Nonetheless I think GrayJay is a decent YouTube frontend and will probably continue using it until it gives me a reason to stop or until something I prefer comes along.
i keep sponsorblock on but i pretty much have it set on manual skip by default. i mostly use it for critical role (whom i also subscribe to on twitch) shows to skip the intermission or for twitch vods on youtube to skip the beginning and after parts where it’s just the streamer talking to chat.
but i also don’t understand how skipping in video sponsored segments loses them money like it’s not a youtube thing it’s a creator thing like television adverts. how would they know if it’s been skipped wouldn’t they already get the money to do the sponsorship before the video is posted?
Before getting Sponsorblock, I would always manually skip forward past the integrated advertisements. This tool does the exact same thing but faster and more convenient for me. My conscience is unaffected
Precisely! The sponsors have to be aware that some subset of the audiences watching the sponsorees will skip ahead anyway. They can’t seriously believe that they are entitled to our attention.
They are aware of it I guess, but probably don’t deal with the issue in an effective way.
There’s a French channel I look at, they make sponsor sequences as well but I don’t skip them because they make those in such a bizarre, ridiculous and remotely funny way I’m even curious to see how bad the sponsor sequence is gonna be.
They alone are the only reason why I set up my sponsorblock to not skip sponsor sequences, but to skip everything else
On one hand true, on the other, a lot of those sponsorships advertise dubious things at best. I love the channels that just shill their own merch, but being entirely fair, you need to be at a certain revenue threshold to afford making said merch.
The problem with those, 3rd party sponsorships is that they’re usually just either mobile games, F2P(P2W) MMOs, overpriced basic products or software advertised in the FUD way. Sorry, I don’t care for Raid Shadow Legends, War Thunder, Manscaped or NordVPN. Especially the last one and the ones like it grind my gears because the sponsorships for that kind of product are borderline misinformation.
All of them, in some way, can be considered somewhat predatory. I’d rather buy a silly hat or a plushie, thank you very much.
Well, it does harm creators, as they may get less money. The same goes for adblockers.
Then again I don’t really understand why would you care about being “shamed”, especially by a company that charges money for a frontend using YouTube’s (extremely expensive) servers for free.
“extremely expensive” is a bit of an overstatement.
Youtube proper, not the rest of Google, is tens of billions in the black, annually.
They reached this level of control over the market by running without video ads for a long time, forcing competitors to close out or not even open into the market without similar money backing. Turning around now and forcing tracking and ads should open them up to antitrust suits.
It’s all arbitrage. If you can afford YouTube Premium’s price, and don’t mind the tracking, go for it. But all this ad blocking and alternative front ends MIGHT come to half a billion annually. uBlock has around 15 million installs, each installed user- assuming all separate and unique and blocking YouTube- would have to deny YouTube $1000 annually for it to be affecting their revenue.
Then again I don’t really understand why would you care about being “shamed”, especially by a company that charges money for a frontend using YouTube’s (extremely expensive) servers for free.
To paraphrase Norm MacDonald: the worst part is the hypocrisy 😅
They can see the percentage of people who watched that part of the video, as part of the video analytics. This doesn’t track the user, though, at least not if you have history turned off, or are using another front end.
Well when a video is buffered it’s loaded in memory but not viewed yet, they can’t count loading the video as a view or they’d count the whole video as viewed if you simply buffered it in full, it would also screw up that watched timestamps feature to see which part has been played back most.
So yes they can count how many times it has been streamed but they also need to know you’ve watched it because sitting on pause while the video buffers all the way through isn’t a view, it isn’t watching those segments, but it does stream them from the servers, in the same way Newpipe and Grayjay does. Which is how a video can register no views despite being watched on something like NewPipe.
As I’ve mentioned in another thread, I believe YouTube provides analytics on this (hence the “most replayed” parts for some videos), and I’m certain I’ve seen some creators mention sposors requiring that information before a deal is made. So it may really hurt some small youtubers that can’t rely on merchandise sales.
That said, I personally use sponsorblock as I don’t feel like wasting my life on nordvpn ads, but I have to admit sponsor segments are a whole lot better than regular YouTube ads.
Edit: And as I far as I know they pay much better than regular ads.
I wish there was an add-on that could fake a view for the sponsored segment for the creator but skip it for the user. I.e. every time the user skips a sponsored segment, the extension adds a view for the sponsored segment for the creator, so they get paid whilst we skip their segment.
It’s true that YouTube does track the most watched portions of a video, but in the case of clients like NewPipe or this one the way the video is parsed it doesn’t send the analytic data necessary, so it likely doesn’t even count views, let alone watched segments.
I mean, the person making the video you are watching respected your time to the point they put in 10-100x the amount of time it takes you to watch that video to make it.
And the sponsor ad is how they afford said time commitment.
Hence why it might be hurtful to small creators. I’d love to see the numbers on that though, as the overall percentage of people using an adblocker is very low, I assume for Sponsorblock it’s significantly less.
Everytime the same argument.
I don’t want to see ads never ever, period. They are useless and annoying at best, sometimes plain evil manipulation.
I recognize the need of income for creators, and they can ask for money in the form of donation/subscription and other methods. I am paying and will pay for everything I want to support.
If you decide that your way to sustain yourself is by shoving up fake opinions and useless noise in order to manipulate me into buying something, I don’t accept it. It’s as simple as that.
If the creators you like choose to monetize with sponsors, you can choose not to watch them instead of complaining about it on a forum. Or go create the content you like yourself.
I don’t like ads either and have stopped watching several channels because of how they use them.
“Every time the same argument” is right - “my time is valuable but the creator’s time is not!”
Go for it! I’m not holding that against anyone. I’m railing against the entitlement of saying it’s “not respectful of the viewer’s time” to have sponsored segments.
Like I said elsewhere, I think that stance is ironic because it’s not respecting the creator’s time and effort. “I want you to spend hours and hours making videos for me but I don’t want you to make money from it”
Shit, I didn’t realize there were 48 hours in a day.
Sorry, you’re right. Creators should work their 9-5 and then spend another 8 hours a day making videos for us out of the goodness of their hearts. I now think it’s disgusting that these people try to monetize their hard work
I think it’s ironic that the argument is both “sponsor segments don’t respect my time!” AND “I have no respect for the time of the creators”
Seriously, this.
Advetising based economy is hell. what’s next? a punch in the face every 5 minutes of watching? And don’t you dare cover your face, because the creators deserve compensation and punch-a-face insertion by big corporation is the only way they got!
Nobody needs YouTube videos nor is anyone compelled to make them. I’m guessing you don’t remember when YouTube was completely free and people just made videos for fun?
Now people quit jobs that support them to do something fun and try to make monry off that. Which is fine, but we’re not required to support their hobby. Stop acting like people have no other option in their life except to make reaction videos, video essays, meme compilations, etc.
If nobody needs them then why are they complaining? Just don’t watch it. Your problem is solved!
Videos on YouTube are so much better than the era you’re remembering. If nordvpn or whoever sponsoring videos is the way for creators to continue making great things on a regular schedule, I’m not gonna make a huff when they take a minute to acknowledge them. I skip most of them, too, but I’m not venting about what a terrible inconvenience it is.
And sorry for not specifying that I wasn’t speaking about reaction videos and meme compilations when I said “high quality”, I thought it that would be pretty damn clear but I guess we watch different things on YouTube
Stop acting like it’s morally wrong to get paid for your work. If there’s a market for it, why shouldn’t people do it full time? Should Hollywood work for free, too?
I’m fairly certain they didn’t want to include it but felt it was the only way to offer the same/better service over revanced.
I’m sure as hell happy about that. I understand the creators need their sponsors but at the same time, I cannot stand ads. Like this I’m keeping his app and frequent it more often.
Shame is a mismatch between ego and ego-ideal, whereas guilt is a mismatch between ego and super-ego. The ego-ideal in shame does depend on social norms. But that is by no means “artificial”.
In case anyone is wondering, here is the “shaming” that is done in the app. (images attached)
You’re not being shamed anywhere in this text. You are being presented factual information. Any shame that you feel as a result of being faced with information is pretty much entirely on you.
I have no qualms turning on sponsorblock and adblockers, I support the creators that I enjoy via other means.
If you are taking issue with the “don’t freeload” then I guess you perhaps feel bad being told that you’re freeloading? I won’t pretend to know what’s going on in your own brain. But you’re posting this in a piracy community so I don’t imagine it should be any surprise to you that you’re freeloading, lol. If ye choose to sail the seas, do it with pride, me hearty. And support small businesses, yarr.
Sponsorblock does not harm creators. Youtube has no method of detecting when a sponsored segment is skipped, so the creator still gets their sponsorship money. A person who is using sponsorblock is extremely unlikely to use the sponsored products even if they did watch the ad, so the creator isn’t losing out on any affiliate money either.
YouTube gets metrics on which parts of videos are being played. You can see this in the player where it’ll display things like “most played segment” on the timeline.
See my other comments on the matter they don’t, not when using apps like this, it’s literally by design as they are meant to be privacy friendly so they naturally won’t send analytics data.
YouTube absolutely can see which parts of videos people are actually engaging with. So can creators. And sponsors can request engagement metrics as part of their sponsorship deals.
Advertisers care about impressions and engagement. A person simply watching a sponsored segment is an impression. If people’s impression metrics for sponsored segments start dropping, they become less attractive to sponsors as they knew they’re going to get fewer impressions as part of the deal.
It may, or may not, be a very small impact but it is an impact nonetheless.
If nobody is watching sponsored segments (which we’ve established: YouTube itsself, creators, and sponsors can track) then companies don’t have any incentive to sponsor videos, and creators no longer get revenue from sponsorships. Sure, this is a very end of the line example, because there’s always going to be someone who doesn’t have sponsorblock installed and can’t be bothered to skip the segment.
Advertisers that care a lot about engagement use CTR instead of CPM. CTR enables advertisers to keep track of engagement and lie about real engagement numbers to save costs. If advertisers rely on video segment statistics, creators can fake the statistics to earn more money. So advertisers rarely measure their payout based on unverifiable information. And people that use SponsorBlock wouldn’t buy it, even without SponsorBlock. Or in other words: Most creators can ignore SponsorBlock.
I agree with you that clickthrough rate is a far more useful metric for advertisers, and is probably more widely used in sponsorship deals.
Creators faking impression metrics would be followed by the advertisers seeing weirdly low clickthrough ratios, seeing that somethings up, and the creator losing future deals from that advertiser, so it’s not something I would expect creators to do unless they think they’re smarter than multi million/billion dollar companies advertising departments.
Where does this assertion come from that people that use sponsorblock are somehow never going to buy products? People keep saying it but I just don’t get it. We live in a world where people buy things. Some products are relevant to some people and some aren’t to other people. I use sponsorblock and adblock, and if I were to somehow see an advert for a product that seemed like it perfectly fit a need that I had, I’d definitely consider getting the product.
Where does this assertion come from that people that use sponsorblock are somehow never going to buy products? People keep saying it but I just don’t get it. We live in a world where people buy things. Some products are relevant to some people and some aren’t to other people. I use sponsorblock and adblock, and if I were to somehow see an advert for a product that seemed like it perfectly fit a need that I had, I’d definitely consider getting the product.
I use SponsorBlock. Ads have an influence on me, but usually with a negative impact on whatever they sell, so it’s beneficial for them that I don’t see their ads.
If I was looking for a fantasy-themed, turn-based role-playing gacha game, and a specific game annoys the fuck out of me with their massive marketing budget, they’re automatically on my blacklist. I’ll proactively ignore the game in my market research and exclude the game, the game’s company and publisher from my Google search results with the uBlacklist browser extension.
If it’s a SaaS and they charge a premium for SSO, they get a once in a lifetime opportunity to land on a public wall of shame that some sysadmins use to preemptively filter out software vendors from their purchasing process. So it’s a really shitty idea to advertise crap to the wrong people.
Okay, sure, that’s a nice story about yourself, but like, this doesn’t address the core of your assertion that people who use sponsorblock won’t buy products if they see ads for them. It doesn’t seem like the two are actually inherently related at all. (People who don’t want to watch adverts) are not necessarily (People who don’t buy products).
Why do they have to prove that? You backed up the assertion that sponsorblock hurts creators with the mere unlikely possibility that sponsors might be able to see metrics, how does their single anecdotal bit of evidence that people using sponsorblock are the kinds of people that won’t click ads anyway not pass the same muster?
Admittedly they’re both bad evidence, so why are we treating yours as better?
Just FYI for all the people who keep repeating this ad-nauseam it doesn’t apply to third party apps like Newpipe and grayjay which DO NOT send analytics data. If anyone wants to make arguments against sponsorblock they also can’t support apps and front-ends which strip the Analytics from the video because without them you add no watch time or metrics, so it’s a hypocritical argument.
I mean, it applies equally here. Using apps that strip metrics and analytics, has a similar effect to using sponsorblock. I don’t think I was arguing against sponsorblock I was saying facts about it. I use sponsorblock, I use grayjay, and I pay content creators.
The thread is about grayjay saying that using sponsorblock on grayjay will hurt creators. If grayjay doesn’t send metrics, then any metrics sponsorblock might mess up are already messed up by watching on grayjay.
Kinda. YouTube has stats about which times of a video are watched more proportionally for a single view. You can ironically usually use this data to see when a sponsor spot ends (to skip to it) since there will be a peak in the watch time curve.
The app strips analytics and watch data preventing views from being counted. So the argument doesn’t logically make sense. They’re trying to make a moral argument out of something that doesn’t and can’t have any impact because the data used to justify watch-time and engagement isn’t provided.
Real sponsors pay up front, or only add an additional bonus for affiliate link sales, if a creator accepts a deal on affiliate link money only, it’s their own fault. So if you always fast forward through sponsors and don’t care, you might as well enable it to save the bandwidth and power.
Skipping sponsors automatically means you definitely won’t be influenced by the marketing, so it hurts the creator because the sponsor might not work with them again because of low sales impact.
Anyway, I’ll continue to use NewPipe x SponsorBlock and the Firefox addon.
Do these particular advertisers asks the influencers to show their statistics?
I mean, wouldn’t the creator have to take a screenshot and send that info in? How do the advertisers even know people are skipping through sponsored segments?
Also I’ve never understood. I’m not going to buy a subscription service because someone I watch is offering it. If I want it I’m going to buy it regardless whether I’ve seen its ad or not, and the creators are just offering a discount code that can help them as well.
That’s why the ad-funded internet is referred to as a bubble and people are saying that the bubble will burst. It’s money-making based on the promise it’ll make the company paying the advertiser money, without any guarantee. You can’t make money out of nothing, people have tried and failed for years if not decades, it always comes crashing down, either through crypto scams, pyramid/ponzi scemes or though worthless investments like the Dot-com crash, it’ll always blow up in your face sooner or later. Which is what is slowly happening with the ad-funded internet, it is becoming overvalued similar to the dot-com investments.
If I’m not buying the crap that sponsors them anyway then how does it affect the creator if I skip the section? I assume the success of the sponsor is based off referrals but again, I’m not buying their crap or using referral links.
That’s a bit of a blanket statement. The way people talk about ads and sponsorships makes it sound like you want the people making the videos you are watching to fail and stop making videos. Or do you contribute to the channels you watch another way to ensure they can keep making money ?
I use Patreon and Nebula yes. But I don’t think creators should feel entitled to people watching the ad section of their videos. And advertisers shouldn’t feel entitled to have their ads be seen.
“I donate to patreons of creators I like so I refuse to watch ads”
“Okay. So you found the Patreon of the random dude who recorded himself swapping out a bathtub spout and made the single most useful video in human history?”
“I donate to patreons of creators I like so I refuse to watch ads”
“Also, I assume you only have a few in rotation. Does that mean you only watch videos by four or five creators and space them out?”
“I donate to patreons of creators I like so I refuse to watch ads”
It is no different than “If the game is worth buying, I’ll buy it” back in the day. It is people who feel the need to ethically justify their piracy making up random and nonsensical conditions, that are often refuted by the creators themselves, as to why they can’t even be bothered to alt tab out of a game to fast forward through learning that hello fresh have DISRUPTED tv dinners.
Sponsorblock simply jumps the video ahead automatically. If you’re okay with doing it manually, you should have no objection to a simple labour-saving device in the form of a browser plugin
For example. There are some youtube channels with REALLY predatory and messed up sponsorships that I always skip. The videos are interesting enough, but I am not dealing with that. Thus, I’ll watch them on a side monitor while I work but not while I play a video game.
Contrast that with other creators where I don’t mind leaving the sponsor segment running.
And while I have never understood the rationale of it, I know there are a lot of people who will just leave a youtube playlist on while they go to sleep. Which… has potentials for subliminal advertising but also means the creator gets some free metrics saying their viewers don’t skip ads.
What that ALSO means is that channels with better skits or less shitty sponsors get watched, whereas the worse don’t. As opposed to everything getting skipped no matter what.
I will skip through sponsor spots if they are really long but I also have YouTube premium because I want to support the YouTubers that I watch alot without seeing ads . I’m just always surprised by the amount of people that will put a lot of effort into making sure they don’t see any ads of any kind but will also refuse to pay anything .
I bought sync for Reddit a few years ago but as a one time fee and it wasn’t really to get rid of ads but to support the developer. I wouldn’t pay a monthly fee . I have sync for Lemmy now but don’t pay any fees because there was no one time fee option.
I’m a big fan of my ridge wallet that I heard about through various YouTubers. I actually lost mine on a busy road and it got run over by a bunch of cars and when I relocated thanks to my tile tracker that I also heard about from YouTubers it was still perfectly fine other than some scratches. I swear I’m not sponsored lol .
Thing about those modern sleek more compact wallets just make me feel like I couldn’t use them because they wouldn’t fit every use case I have for my wallet. Like I guess if you only have a couple debit/credit cards plus ID and otherwise use like apple or android pay and I guess hardly ever or never use cash. I mean use in a typical everyday transaction, sure they can hold like folded up bills neatly but did everyone forget change exists? In every use of cash id have to stuff coins in some free pocket and a lot of circulating bills aren’t exactly as crisp and foldable as a stock certificate lol
But yeah, some smaller and more niche channels might advertise real useful products, but that’s very much in the minority
Edit: FWIW I have bought exactly one product which I learned about from a YouTube sponsorship. It was a set of Sleephones I heard about from an ASMR maker. They’ve made a huge difference for my sleep and the company that makes them is pretty good about selling replacement parts
I think it depends on the deal they have made. If YouTubers only get paid when someone actually buys a product, then NordVPN pays cents to each Youtuber
Same for me, and it’s not even just about sponsors as there are many other categories. How does it help the creators to tell me for the umpteenth time to subscribe or something about a bell, when I don’t even have a google account?
Sponsorblock is a wonder, I wouldn’t watch certain channels without it anymore.
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+1
I guess there’s a moral reason behind it.
YouTube is a behemoth of a company so you’d expect most of the ads money to go to the creators but you can be sure it’s not.
They also demonetize videos for stupid reasons more and more, and they use their quasi monopole on the video hosting to push ads down our throats in many ways with less and less control over the type, placement or duration of the ads they greenlight because what are we gonna do? Go on vimeo or dailymotion?
On the other hand, sponsors pay the creators directly or through affiliated links, they work even if the video is demonetized, creators can decide whether or not they agree with the sponsor content and remain somewhat in control of how the sponsor sequence is gonna be in their video since they’re the ones making them.
Morally, you can decide you hate YouTube and its ads while still wanting to support the creators (or not) but all users are not on the same level of technological knowledge and might not know what sponsorblock is gonna block exactly (despite the name) or how to set it up.
For those users, I think it’s not a bad idea to have such a warning/opt-out step in the setup process.
This ignores the fact that these apps don’t have the functionality to tell YouTube a video or segment of a video has been watched, therefore they literally can’t make money off these users period, it’s just the way these clients work, they don’t send analytics data to YouTube, so they don’t count views. It’s as if the person paused the video, let it buffer all the way then clicked off without watching.
People can argue semantics about watching or not watching or what it means philosophically but in the end the views aren’t counted by the software on these apps, it doesn’t matter how much or how long you watch something it just doesn’t count the view, because they never receive any tracking data. So in that regard there really is no sense in shaming SponsorBlock usage, if it seems like a problem you shouldn’t be using these apps in the first place because they defeat the money-making part of the segments in and of themselves.
Eh, at least they added support for it. Good for them. Still looking at this app with some skepticism but so far seems to be doing what it sets out to do.
I think they said that they they technically don’t block ads. They just don’t implement them. If youtube were to somehow pack ads into the video stream, they wouldn’t go around it. Though I’m sure that in such case an adblock extension would pop up very fast.
Outside of his right to repair work I find most anything Rossmann gets involved in is questionable. He is a good example of someone that got popular for something they cared about and knew something about, then mistakenly got the idea that success meant they had valid opinions on other things they know nothing about.
Rossmann knows about laptop hardware repair and running a small business. But that doesn’t necessarily translate into being a knowledgeable voice in the software dev or large scale digital advertising industries.
He is just a mouthpiece for the company behind Greyjay, nothing more.
I’m inclined to agree. I respect the work he’s done for R2R, but I find his videos on New York commercial real estate to be incredibly cringe. Nonetheless I think GrayJay is a decent YouTube frontend and will probably continue using it until it gives me a reason to stop or until something I prefer comes along.
So he’s basically Elon Musk.
i keep sponsorblock on but i pretty much have it set on manual skip by default. i mostly use it for critical role (whom i also subscribe to on twitch) shows to skip the intermission or for twitch vods on youtube to skip the beginning and after parts where it’s just the streamer talking to chat.
but i also don’t understand how skipping in video sponsored segments loses them money like it’s not a youtube thing it’s a creator thing like television adverts. how would they know if it’s been skipped wouldn’t they already get the money to do the sponsorship before the video is posted?
They get paid more if people use the affiliate links or coupon codes from the sponsored sections of the video.
Youtube tracks how much of a video each person watches. These metrics are used by youtubers to strike deals with sponsors.
The amount of money the sponsor pays will be based on how many views the sponsor’s message part of the video gets.
Before getting Sponsorblock, I would always manually skip forward past the integrated advertisements. This tool does the exact same thing but faster and more convenient for me. My conscience is unaffected
Precisely! The sponsors have to be aware that some subset of the audiences watching the sponsorees will skip ahead anyway. They can’t seriously believe that they are entitled to our attention.
The Wadsworth Constant was a thing even from the earliest days of Youtube.
They are aware of it I guess, but probably don’t deal with the issue in an effective way.
There’s a French channel I look at, they make sponsor sequences as well but I don’t skip them because they make those in such a bizarre, ridiculous and remotely funny way I’m even curious to see how bad the sponsor sequence is gonna be.
They alone are the only reason why I set up my sponsorblock to not skip sponsor sequences, but to skip everything else
I believe this is because sponsor segments are like traditional TV ads. They don’t use trackers, they are not targeted and they respect your privacy.
On one hand true, on the other, a lot of those sponsorships advertise dubious things at best. I love the channels that just shill their own merch, but being entirely fair, you need to be at a certain revenue threshold to afford making said merch.
The problem with those, 3rd party sponsorships is that they’re usually just either mobile games, F2P(P2W) MMOs, overpriced basic products or software advertised in the FUD way. Sorry, I don’t care for Raid Shadow Legends, War Thunder, Manscaped or NordVPN. Especially the last one and the ones like it grind my gears because the sponsorships for that kind of product are borderline misinformation.
All of them, in some way, can be considered somewhat predatory. I’d rather buy a silly hat or a plushie, thank you very much.
I don’t care for those, either.
I skipped over therlm for years before using sponsorblock anyway.
If that was their reasoning, they should say that rather than vaccuously claiming that it “harms creators”
Vaccumoulsy
Well, it does harm creators, as they may get less money. The same goes for adblockers.
Then again I don’t really understand why would you care about being “shamed”, especially by a company that charges money for a frontend using YouTube’s (extremely expensive) servers for free.
“extremely expensive” is a bit of an overstatement.
Youtube proper, not the rest of Google, is tens of billions in the black, annually.
They reached this level of control over the market by running without video ads for a long time, forcing competitors to close out or not even open into the market without similar money backing. Turning around now and forcing tracking and ads should open them up to antitrust suits.
It’s all arbitrage. If you can afford YouTube Premium’s price, and don’t mind the tracking, go for it. But all this ad blocking and alternative front ends MIGHT come to half a billion annually. uBlock has around 15 million installs, each installed user- assuming all separate and unique and blocking YouTube- would have to deny YouTube $1000 annually for it to be affecting their revenue.
To paraphrase Norm MacDonald: the worst part is the hypocrisy 😅
In that case it won’t matter to anyone that I skipped them.
Well, they can see whether you watched them or not. So technically still tracked. At least in the official youtube app.
They can see the percentage of people who watched that part of the video, as part of the video analytics. This doesn’t track the user, though, at least not if you have history turned off, or are using another front end.
And I’d guess that’s done in the backend instead of the frontend. They should be able to know how many times their server steamed a part of a video.
Well when a video is buffered it’s loaded in memory but not viewed yet, they can’t count loading the video as a view or they’d count the whole video as viewed if you simply buffered it in full, it would also screw up that watched timestamps feature to see which part has been played back most.
So yes they can count how many times it has been streamed but they also need to know you’ve watched it because sitting on pause while the video buffers all the way through isn’t a view, it isn’t watching those segments, but it does stream them from the servers, in the same way Newpipe and Grayjay does. Which is how a video can register no views despite being watched on something like NewPipe.
As I’ve mentioned in another thread, I believe YouTube provides analytics on this (hence the “most replayed” parts for some videos), and I’m certain I’ve seen some creators mention sposors requiring that information before a deal is made. So it may really hurt some small youtubers that can’t rely on merchandise sales.
That said, I personally use sponsorblock as I don’t feel like wasting my life on nordvpn ads, but I have to admit sponsor segments are a whole lot better than regular YouTube ads.
Edit: And as I far as I know they pay much better than regular ads.
The most replayed section won’t count your view anyway since you’re watching through an unofficial app that doesn’t send tracking data to YouTube
I wish there was an add-on that could fake a view for the sponsored segment for the creator but skip it for the user. I.e. every time the user skips a sponsored segment, the extension adds a view for the sponsored segment for the creator, so they get paid whilst we skip their segment.
It’s true that YouTube does track the most watched portions of a video, but in the case of clients like NewPipe or this one the way the video is parsed it doesn’t send the analytic data necessary, so it likely doesn’t even count views, let alone watched segments.
I manually skip all sponsored segments except for the Internet Historian ones.
Localscriptman also does really creative ones.
And Some More News
You thief!! /s
Pretty much. I watch all the NordVPN Man ads and don’t even sign up for a 12 month discount and the first month free. I’m basically a criminal.
Also Mullvad FTW.
My man Windscribe always forgotten about
They don’t respect my attention and time, thought
I mean, the person making the video you are watching respected your time to the point they put in 10-100x the amount of time it takes you to watch that video to make it.
And the sponsor ad is how they afford said time commitment.
And show it to millions of people… So per capita… I put in more time then they did.
Hence why it might be hurtful to small creators. I’d love to see the numbers on that though, as the overall percentage of people using an adblocker is very low, I assume for Sponsorblock it’s significantly less.
No not even close. You did not put in more time.
Apologies. You are the true hero. Thank you for your service
Then they fucked up.
I completely agree with you, and that’s the reason I block them as well. I was just trying to give an explaination for the app’s behaviour.
Skip it all you want but don’t act like it’s such a terrible inconvenience. Creating high quality content is a full time job and people gotta eat
Everytime the same argument. I don’t want to see ads never ever, period. They are useless and annoying at best, sometimes plain evil manipulation.
I recognize the need of income for creators, and they can ask for money in the form of donation/subscription and other methods. I am paying and will pay for everything I want to support. If you decide that your way to sustain yourself is by shoving up fake opinions and useless noise in order to manipulate me into buying something, I don’t accept it. It’s as simple as that.
If the creators you like choose to monetize with sponsors, you can choose not to watch them instead of complaining about it on a forum. Or go create the content you like yourself.
I don’t like ads either and have stopped watching several channels because of how they use them.
“Every time the same argument” is right - “my time is valuable but the creator’s time is not!”
Instead of not watching them, you can just use SponsorBlock!
Go for it! I’m not holding that against anyone. I’m railing against the entitlement of saying it’s “not respectful of the viewer’s time” to have sponsored segments.
Like I said elsewhere, I think that stance is ironic because it’s not respecting the creator’s time and effort. “I want you to spend hours and hours making videos for me but I don’t want you to make money from it”
Shit, I didn’t realize the only way some people can eat is by making Youtube videos.
It is.
Shit, I didn’t realize there were 48 hours in a day.
Sorry, you’re right. Creators should work their 9-5 and then spend another 8 hours a day making videos for us out of the goodness of their hearts. I now think it’s disgusting that these people try to monetize their hard work
I think it’s ironic that the argument is both “sponsor segments don’t respect my time!” AND “I have no respect for the time of the creators”
Okay let’s get this straight: No Ads. Ever. Period. Capisce?
Create, don’t create, steal, don’t steal, jerk off, don’t jerk off - don’t care. NO. ADS. THE END.
Seriously, this. Advetising based economy is hell. what’s next? a punch in the face every 5 minutes of watching? And don’t you dare cover your face, because the creators deserve compensation and punch-a-face insertion by big corporation is the only way they got!
Ok
Nobody needs YouTube videos nor is anyone compelled to make them. I’m guessing you don’t remember when YouTube was completely free and people just made videos for fun?
Now people quit jobs that support them to do something fun and try to make monry off that. Which is fine, but we’re not required to support their hobby. Stop acting like people have no other option in their life except to make reaction videos, video essays, meme compilations, etc.
If nobody needs them then why are they complaining? Just don’t watch it. Your problem is solved!
Videos on YouTube are so much better than the era you’re remembering. If nordvpn or whoever sponsoring videos is the way for creators to continue making great things on a regular schedule, I’m not gonna make a huff when they take a minute to acknowledge them. I skip most of them, too, but I’m not venting about what a terrible inconvenience it is.
And sorry for not specifying that I wasn’t speaking about reaction videos and meme compilations when I said “high quality”, I thought it that would be pretty damn clear but I guess we watch different things on YouTube
Stop acting like it’s morally wrong to get paid for your work. If there’s a market for it, why shouldn’t people do it full time? Should Hollywood work for free, too?
It’s also under control of what the creator placed in the video. Youtube can insert commercials into your video, even if you chose not to monetize it.
You are right! I used to hate on sponsors but now I understand that they are way better than targeted ads.
How do you turn it on? I’m on Grayjay v 195 but I’m not seeing the option in settings.
You have to go first to “sources” and then it’s in the YouTube options
I’m fairly certain they didn’t want to include it but felt it was the only way to offer the same/better service over revanced.
I’m sure as hell happy about that. I understand the creators need their sponsors but at the same time, I cannot stand ads. Like this I’m keeping his app and frequent it more often.
Shame is an artificial construct that I am choosing not to opt into. Thanks for letting us know that sponsorblock is in, I’m turning it on now.
Shame is a mismatch between ego and ego-ideal, whereas guilt is a mismatch between ego and super-ego. The ego-ideal in shame does depend on social norms. But that is by no means “artificial”.
Yeah I agree, I just thought it was funny… Not “haha funny” but a bit jarring
In case anyone is wondering, here is the “shaming” that is done in the app. (images attached)
You’re not being shamed anywhere in this text. You are being presented factual information. Any shame that you feel as a result of being faced with information is pretty much entirely on you.
I have no qualms turning on sponsorblock and adblockers, I support the creators that I enjoy via other means.
If you are taking issue with the “don’t freeload” then I guess you perhaps feel bad being told that you’re freeloading? I won’t pretend to know what’s going on in your own brain. But you’re posting this in a piracy community so I don’t imagine it should be any surprise to you that you’re freeloading, lol. If ye choose to sail the seas, do it with pride, me hearty. And support small businesses, yarr.
Sponsorblock does not harm creators. Youtube has no method of detecting when a sponsored segment is skipped, so the creator still gets their sponsorship money. A person who is using sponsorblock is extremely unlikely to use the sponsored products even if they did watch the ad, so the creator isn’t losing out on any affiliate money either.
In theory the sponsor could demand access to the statistics showing watch time and pay differently because of that.
I doubt it happens though.
YouTube is unbearable without it.
YouTube gets metrics on which parts of videos are being played. You can see this in the player where it’ll display things like “most played segment” on the timeline.
See my other comments on the matter they don’t, not when using apps like this, it’s literally by design as they are meant to be privacy friendly so they naturally won’t send analytics data.
YouTube absolutely can see which parts of videos people are actually engaging with. So can creators. And sponsors can request engagement metrics as part of their sponsorship deals.
Advertisers care about impressions and engagement. A person simply watching a sponsored segment is an impression. If people’s impression metrics for sponsored segments start dropping, they become less attractive to sponsors as they knew they’re going to get fewer impressions as part of the deal.
It may, or may not, be a very small impact but it is an impact nonetheless.
If nobody is watching sponsored segments (which we’ve established: YouTube itsself, creators, and sponsors can track) then companies don’t have any incentive to sponsor videos, and creators no longer get revenue from sponsorships. Sure, this is a very end of the line example, because there’s always going to be someone who doesn’t have sponsorblock installed and can’t be bothered to skip the segment.
Advertisers that care a lot about engagement use CTR instead of CPM. CTR enables advertisers to keep track of engagement and lie about real engagement numbers to save costs. If advertisers rely on video segment statistics, creators can fake the statistics to earn more money. So advertisers rarely measure their payout based on unverifiable information. And people that use SponsorBlock wouldn’t buy it, even without SponsorBlock. Or in other words: Most creators can ignore SponsorBlock.
I agree with you that clickthrough rate is a far more useful metric for advertisers, and is probably more widely used in sponsorship deals.
Creators faking impression metrics would be followed by the advertisers seeing weirdly low clickthrough ratios, seeing that somethings up, and the creator losing future deals from that advertiser, so it’s not something I would expect creators to do unless they think they’re smarter than multi million/billion dollar companies advertising departments.
Where does this assertion come from that people that use sponsorblock are somehow never going to buy products? People keep saying it but I just don’t get it. We live in a world where people buy things. Some products are relevant to some people and some aren’t to other people. I use sponsorblock and adblock, and if I were to somehow see an advert for a product that seemed like it perfectly fit a need that I had, I’d definitely consider getting the product.
I use SponsorBlock. Ads have an influence on me, but usually with a negative impact on whatever they sell, so it’s beneficial for them that I don’t see their ads.
If I was looking for a fantasy-themed, turn-based role-playing gacha game, and a specific game annoys the fuck out of me with their massive marketing budget, they’re automatically on my blacklist. I’ll proactively ignore the game in my market research and exclude the game, the game’s company and publisher from my Google search results with the uBlacklist browser extension.
If it’s a SaaS and they charge a premium for SSO, they get a once in a lifetime opportunity to land on a public wall of shame that some sysadmins use to preemptively filter out software vendors from their purchasing process. So it’s a really shitty idea to advertise crap to the wrong people.
Okay, sure, that’s a nice story about yourself, but like, this doesn’t address the core of your assertion that people who use sponsorblock won’t buy products if they see ads for them. It doesn’t seem like the two are actually inherently related at all. (People who don’t want to watch adverts) are not necessarily (People who don’t buy products).
Why do they have to prove that? You backed up the assertion that sponsorblock hurts creators with the mere unlikely possibility that sponsors might be able to see metrics, how does their single anecdotal bit of evidence that people using sponsorblock are the kinds of people that won’t click ads anyway not pass the same muster?
Admittedly they’re both bad evidence, so why are we treating yours as better?
Just FYI for all the people who keep repeating this ad-nauseam it doesn’t apply to third party apps like Newpipe and grayjay which DO NOT send analytics data. If anyone wants to make arguments against sponsorblock they also can’t support apps and front-ends which strip the Analytics from the video because without them you add no watch time or metrics, so it’s a hypocritical argument.
I mean, it applies equally here. Using apps that strip metrics and analytics, has a similar effect to using sponsorblock. I don’t think I was arguing against sponsorblock I was saying facts about it. I use sponsorblock, I use grayjay, and I pay content creators.
The thread is about grayjay saying that using sponsorblock on grayjay will hurt creators. If grayjay doesn’t send metrics, then any metrics sponsorblock might mess up are already messed up by watching on grayjay.
Are they even able to see when their baked in ads get skipped over?
Kinda. YouTube has stats about which times of a video are watched more proportionally for a single view. You can ironically usually use this data to see when a sponsor spot ends (to skip to it) since there will be a peak in the watch time curve.
Probably, I’m fairly certain they get told which parts of the video get skipped and which get rewatched.
Only applies on official apps and frontends with analytics. Without them it’s just buffering the video.
Since the app has ties to creators, I get why they disapprove of sponsorblock, but… Why did they implement it if they don’t like it?
Certainly there was big demand for it. I was hoping they’d eventually implement it as I’d been testing the app out
The app strips analytics and watch data preventing views from being counted. So the argument doesn’t logically make sense. They’re trying to make a moral argument out of something that doesn’t and can’t have any impact because the data used to justify watch-time and engagement isn’t provided.
Real sponsors pay up front, or only add an additional bonus for affiliate link sales, if a creator accepts a deal on affiliate link money only, it’s their own fault. So if you always fast forward through sponsors and don’t care, you might as well enable it to save the bandwidth and power.
Skipping sponsors automatically means you definitely won’t be influenced by the marketing, so it hurts the creator because the sponsor might not work with them again because of low sales impact.
Anyway, I’ll continue to use NewPipe x SponsorBlock and the Firefox addon.
Do these particular advertisers asks the influencers to show their statistics?
I mean, wouldn’t the creator have to take a screenshot and send that info in? How do the advertisers even know people are skipping through sponsored segments?
Also I’ve never understood. I’m not going to buy a subscription service because someone I watch is offering it. If I want it I’m going to buy it regardless whether I’ve seen its ad or not, and the creators are just offering a discount code that can help them as well.
Lost views is not lost sales. That’s just stupid.
That’s why the ad-funded internet is referred to as a bubble and people are saying that the bubble will burst. It’s money-making based on the promise it’ll make the company paying the advertiser money, without any guarantee. You can’t make money out of nothing, people have tried and failed for years if not decades, it always comes crashing down, either through crypto scams, pyramid/ponzi scemes or though worthless investments like the Dot-com crash, it’ll always blow up in your face sooner or later. Which is what is slowly happening with the ad-funded internet, it is becoming overvalued similar to the dot-com investments.
If I’m not buying the crap that sponsors them anyway then how does it affect the creator if I skip the section? I assume the success of the sponsor is based off referrals but again, I’m not buying their crap or using referral links.
Exactly, I wouldn’t be buying anything sponsored anyway, and I’d just skip ahead myself if SponsorBlock didn’t exist.
Precisely. Basically every company that markets themselves using YouTube sponsorships is a scam anyway.
That’s a bit of a blanket statement. The way people talk about ads and sponsorships makes it sound like you want the people making the videos you are watching to fail and stop making videos. Or do you contribute to the channels you watch another way to ensure they can keep making money ?
I use Patreon and Nebula yes. But I don’t think creators should feel entitled to people watching the ad section of their videos. And advertisers shouldn’t feel entitled to have their ads be seen.
Can already summarize the following conversation:
It is no different than “If the game is worth buying, I’ll buy it” back in the day. It is people who feel the need to ethically justify their piracy making up random and nonsensical conditions, that are often refuted by the creators themselves, as to why they can’t even be bothered to alt tab out of a game to fast forward through learning that hello fresh have DISRUPTED tv dinners.
Sponsorblock simply jumps the video ahead automatically. If you’re okay with doing it manually, you should have no objection to a simple labour-saving device in the form of a browser plugin
People are lazy and labor makes a big difference.
For example. There are some youtube channels with REALLY predatory and messed up sponsorships that I always skip. The videos are interesting enough, but I am not dealing with that. Thus, I’ll watch them on a side monitor while I work but not while I play a video game.
Contrast that with other creators where I don’t mind leaving the sponsor segment running.
And while I have never understood the rationale of it, I know there are a lot of people who will just leave a youtube playlist on while they go to sleep. Which… has potentials for subliminal advertising but also means the creator gets some free metrics saying their viewers don’t skip ads.
What that ALSO means is that channels with better skits or less shitty sponsors get watched, whereas the worse don’t. As opposed to everything getting skipped no matter what.
Jesus christ
I will skip through sponsor spots if they are really long but I also have YouTube premium because I want to support the YouTubers that I watch alot without seeing ads . I’m just always surprised by the amount of people that will put a lot of effort into making sure they don’t see any ads of any kind but will also refuse to pay anything .
Personally? I am excited for when one of these “alternate youtubes” start charging a fee. And people pay it
Like, fuck reddit for a lot of reasons. But I still find it completely insane that people were paying a third party to not view ads on reddit.
I bought sync for Reddit a few years ago but as a one time fee and it wasn’t really to get rid of ads but to support the developer. I wouldn’t pay a monthly fee . I have sync for Lemmy now but don’t pay any fees because there was no one time fee option.
Nah, I watch a lot of videos about cars and most sponsors are legitimate businesses and some that I’ve bought from before.
VPNs and apps on the other hand…
I’m a big fan of my ridge wallet that I heard about through various YouTubers. I actually lost mine on a busy road and it got run over by a bunch of cars and when I relocated thanks to my tile tracker that I also heard about from YouTubers it was still perfectly fine other than some scratches. I swear I’m not sponsored lol .
Thing about those modern sleek more compact wallets just make me feel like I couldn’t use them because they wouldn’t fit every use case I have for my wallet. Like I guess if you only have a couple debit/credit cards plus ID and otherwise use like apple or android pay and I guess hardly ever or never use cash. I mean use in a typical everyday transaction, sure they can hold like folded up bills neatly but did everyone forget change exists? In every use of cash id have to stuff coins in some free pocket and a lot of circulating bills aren’t exactly as crisp and foldable as a stock certificate lol
Yeah, VPNs, mobile games, subscription services…
But yeah, some smaller and more niche channels might advertise real useful products, but that’s very much in the minority
Edit: FWIW I have bought exactly one product which I learned about from a YouTube sponsorship. It was a set of Sleephones I heard about from an ASMR maker. They’ve made a huge difference for my sleep and the company that makes them is pretty good about selling replacement parts
I think it depends on the deal they have made. If YouTubers only get paid when someone actually buys a product, then NordVPN pays cents to each Youtuber
Same for me, and it’s not even just about sponsors as there are many other categories. How does it help the creators to tell me for the umpteenth time to subscribe or something about a bell, when I don’t even have a google account?
Sponsorblock is a wonder, I wouldn’t watch certain channels without it anymore.