CEO Steve Huffman told me in an interview last week, “90-plus percent of Reddit users are on our platform, contributing, and are monetized either through ads or Reddit Premium. Why would we subsidize this small group? Why would we effectively pay them to use Reddit but not everybody else who also contributes to Reddit?”
It’s called a “loss leader,” Steve.
Dude’s sounding like the kind of guy that cuts IT, security, and janitorial because they don’t bring in revenue. But then, he did say he’s following the Musk model. Which is, basically, that.
90-plus percent of Reddit users are on our platform, contributing, and are monetized either through ads or Reddit Premium
I wonder how many of those reddit premium members have cancelled their subscriptions. I know I did. I had premium for years as it seemed like a good way to give a little bit back to a site I was using multiple times a day, every day. As soon as Spez started his bullshit I cancelled it and won’t be back.
All they had to do was offer API keys with Reddit Premium. Plug-and-play into your 3rd-party-app of choice. Can’t believe those dum-dums chose to kill off their golden goose instead.
Speaking of API keys, the free key allows just a little bit of traffic, which is probably just enough for a single user, but not enough for all the Apollo users added together. So, my idea is that what if every user had their own personal key…
Currently the key provisioning system is really only meant for developers, key requests have to be manually approved by reddit admins. You couldn’t have millions of users jump in to request their own keys. This uncertainty is why the 3pa devs considered and discarded the option of letting users provide their own keys, choosing to shut down their apps entirely. Making the system official and automated via Reddit Premium would have solved that.
Reddit would likely put a wall up to prevent non-developers from getting keys. I deal with enterprise applications that do that to prevent just that sort of thing. Basically you require developer registeration, and refuse any applicant that doesn’t show they are really a developer.
All the 3pa’s shut down business the moment the actual API prices were announced. This wasn’t a protest move, the prices were simply 20 times higher than what they were promised and impossible to work into their business model. Reddit couldn’t have overcharged and continued as normal - it was a deliberate move to kill off 3pa while pretending they are not. Reddit COULD have charged this API price to users directly via Reddit Premium, but failed to do so.
I think it also important to note that it wasn’t just the pricing itself, which was indeed already heinous, but that the rate calculation changed. It used to be a rate per user per app (apikey+oauth) but they changed that to just the per app … that then has a multiplicative effect on the costs and makes the “free tier” they were talking about especially pointless…
It would be easy for an app to start at free tier … not have much growth through word of mouth but enough given the per app rates to push it over boundary points … and then be due a significant and unavoidable invoice in a couple of months…
I stopped reddit usage altogether. Like you. A statement to myself really. But a righteous one because I am standing with the good guys here. And I feel good about myself.
I really appreciate how Verge has covered this absolute shitshow. The administration is insisting on doing every stupid move possible to get their way, and destroy the communities in the chase to be a generic social TikTok clone.
Good riddance. This place is way better for my mental health.
The Verge’s coverage of this so far has been really good. It’s probably because they think drama like this will get a lot of clicks, but even still I’ve enjoyed their articles.
Lol how dare he frame this like he’s firing employees for not doing their jobs. This isn’t a job dipshit, it’s unpaid volunteer labor that for some dumbass reason you think you’re entitled to just for offering an empty room for people to walk in, decorate, and create community in. Honestly what a POS.
And it not bad at all, they are making such a spectacular show of how every corpo social media fail and why everyone need to get off of there and run their own community that are federated/distributed.
“90-plus percent of Reddit users are on our platform, contributing, and are monetized either through ads or Reddit Premium. Why would we subsidize this small group? Why would we effectively pay them to use Reddit but not everybody else who also contributes to Reddit?”
If I’m reading this correctly, this is blatantly assuming that he would rather loose those 10% than letting them use Reddit for free. He even calls it “subsidizing” them. The tricky part for the CEO-wannabe spez is to know how much of those 10% are content creators. Are users who use third-party apps more prone to post or not? Because let’s face it, if he’s betting on having a thriving social network trying to mimic tiktok, instagram, etc… he’s light years behind. Reddit will never be the choice of shitty influencers and people mimicking each others dances. It’s just too complicated of a network for such a basic user-base.
OR…he just wants to prep things up to sell and disappear. From everything I read, his Eloncrush is the most worrying part of it all.
These 10% are the power users and likely the biggest contributors to the platform. I’m totally okay with letting these guys come here and start up a new community while reddit tries to make it work with the casuals and lurkers.
It’s honestly crazy how poorly this whole thing is being handled. Reddit admins are really showing their true colors and keep doubling down on everything, making themselves look like absolute fools. They realized they don’t have as much power as they wanted and are acting like grumpy children throwing a temper tantrum
Absolutely wild. I used to moderate a local-area subreddit with around 39K members and decided to just cut my losses. Deleted my account and never looked back! I was happy to see that the remaining mods stuck with our 2-day blackout plan.
Honestly though, it was such a miserable job. Constant bad-faith arguments from folks trying to post heinous comments about asylum seekers, LGBTQ+ folks, etc. It really makes you lose faith in your fellow man. I’m very happy to have given it up. I guess this is why Facebook spends millions of dollars on content moderation – it’s very taxing.
I guess this is why Facebook spends millions of dollars on content moderation
Meanwhile reddit is shitting all over the people who were donating these millions of dollars worth of content moderation to them.
Anybody who invests in the reddit IPO must be an absolute idiot.
Seriously. There are tech companies out there which are 100% scams and they are better run than reddit. They do not understand how their own product works. DO NOT BUY!!!
Well, if the guy really wants to be Elon and follow the example from the Twitter, then shutting down moderation to let the racism, homophobia and science denial run rampant is all part of the genius plan.
It’s insane that any CEO would point to Twitter and say, “that’s the model we want to follow”. They are making like 5 figures worth of money on subscriptions, they have lost tons of advertising due to their content policies in the Elon era, and people generally feel unsafe so a bunch of people left the platform. What is redeeming about any of that?
I just got a threat from them on one of the subs I moderate that is private and has been for years. It included this gem:
If this community remains private, we will reach out soon with information on what next steps will take place.
We already know what their “next steps” are. It will be interesting to see if they ban my account as well. I’ve already nuked all of my comments and posts. Fuck them.
Judging by the comments you get if you suggest switching away from Reddit, Reddit will do very well. I won’t be there, but they’ll be successful even if the site goes more to shit.
It is shocking how emotionally attached some people seem to be to Reddit and how they lash out when you suggest alternatives.
I wonder if it’s an age thing, people pushing 40 like me have seen plenty of sites come and go an have transitioned with them. If you’re under say 25, you may have been using Reddit your whole life on the internet.
Lemmy really reminds me of those old BBSes though – I’m connecting to my local server, it’s federating messages like FIDOnet used to do, just much faster :)
You left out IRC. It’s #channel drama was fantastic back in they day. Using net-splits to take over channels. Finding some jerk’s running an open proxy and using it to get the IP klined.
I was struggling to remember FIDOnet! UUCP kept NNTP keept popping into my head.
My IRC experience is largely limited to openprojects.net (later freenode), and it had tools in place to prevent that drama. By the time the network collapsed under post-lilo management, I had already moved on. The drama that existed on other servers felt like rumour only.
It sounds like this was done without any warning, too. Subs can, and have, changed their rules many times. Users voting to allow NSFW content is already precedented.
Unilaterally removing mods who are in direct compliance with your order to reopen the sub isn’t a good look, particularly since one of the biggest drivers of this protest is the lack of communication with mods.
Apparently, those subreddits are now not only open, but completely unmoderated. Reddit’s solution was to remove the mods and put nobody else in charge. I’m sure that won’t backfire in any way whatsoever! /s
Perhaps we can learn from this. As I raised my whiskers from r/programming as it went dark and as took in the Reddit landscape. I dare convey the disgust of my view and what once was a fairly decent host of valid servers covering meaningful content and topics has became home to some of the foulest users and mods alike, hosting some of the most absurd and leud servers. Looking for another habitat for this ole cat, I found none… r/programming is still down but even if it opens the doors under new moderation, I will not be returning as those that made the subreddit what it was will not be there, thus they may as well parse it with r/programminghumor and be done with it.
I am glad to see other programmers like @tyfi take a stand as well and break ground here. I’m hopeful for this small community. 🐈⬛
Even if mods still want to continue modding their aubreddits you’d have to have taken a shot to the heart after years of free work with what Reddit is doing now. This has been one of the worst displays of ignorance and ungratefulness I’ve ever seen portrayed on an online forum that’s supposedly operated by professionals.
For a public spokesperson, this is such a hostile and condescending response:
Asked if Reddit could confirm the reinstatement, Rathschmidt declined, saying, “I’m not going to set a precedent of confirming with The Verge every action we do or don’t take to ensure users can access their communities.”
That is a very strange reply, you’d think reddit would have the standard answers figured out lol. Especially for a company that wants to go public you’d expect spokespersons who give the “we are committed to our communities and their interests” answers.
I quite enjoyed reading that quote. You can practically see the columnist rolling their eyes. Does this spokesperson not understand how to say “no comment”?
Even if you wanted to stay as a mod you’d have to have taken a shot to the heart after all of Reddits shinanigans lately. Years of free effort and this is the thanks you get. Absolutely disgusting betrayal of people who have done a mostly fantastic job keeping the wheels on the beast all these years and I’m absolutely stunned they did it.
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We need to strike back with a coup
It’s called a “loss leader,” Steve.
Dude’s sounding like the kind of guy that cuts IT, security, and janitorial because they don’t bring in revenue. But then, he did say he’s following the Musk model. Which is, basically, that.
I wonder how many of those reddit premium members have cancelled their subscriptions. I know I did. I had premium for years as it seemed like a good way to give a little bit back to a site I was using multiple times a day, every day. As soon as Spez started his bullshit I cancelled it and won’t be back.
All they had to do was offer API keys with Reddit Premium. Plug-and-play into your 3rd-party-app of choice. Can’t believe those dum-dums chose to kill off their golden goose instead.
Speaking of API keys, the free key allows just a little bit of traffic, which is probably just enough for a single user, but not enough for all the Apollo users added together. So, my idea is that what if every user had their own personal key…
Currently the key provisioning system is really only meant for developers, key requests have to be manually approved by reddit admins. You couldn’t have millions of users jump in to request their own keys. This uncertainty is why the 3pa devs considered and discarded the option of letting users provide their own keys, choosing to shut down their apps entirely. Making the system official and automated via Reddit Premium would have solved that.
Figures. Would have been too good to be true. Thanks for the explanation anyway!
Reddit would likely put a wall up to prevent non-developers from getting keys. I deal with enterprise applications that do that to prevent just that sort of thing. Basically you require developer registeration, and refuse any applicant that doesn’t show they are really a developer.
I just asked Bing to write some VBA code that adds two numbers together. Here’s the code.
`Sub AddTwoNumbers() Dim x As Integer Dim y As Integer Dim z As Integer
End Sub `
I’m a VBA developer now. I’m entitled to get my own API, right?
Oh, but that’s not all, there’s also a Whitespace version of my program.
`
I suspect they could’ve overcharged still, but just shut their mouths and continued as normal. Each new tactic is awful and self harming.
All the 3pa’s shut down business the moment the actual API prices were announced. This wasn’t a protest move, the prices were simply 20 times higher than what they were promised and impossible to work into their business model. Reddit couldn’t have overcharged and continued as normal - it was a deliberate move to kill off 3pa while pretending they are not. Reddit COULD have charged this API price to users directly via Reddit Premium, but failed to do so.
I think it also important to note that it wasn’t just the pricing itself, which was indeed already heinous, but that the rate calculation changed. It used to be a rate per user per app (apikey+oauth) but they changed that to just the per app … that then has a multiplicative effect on the costs and makes the “free tier” they were talking about especially pointless…
It would be easy for an app to start at free tier … not have much growth through word of mouth but enough given the per app rates to push it over boundary points … and then be due a significant and unavoidable invoice in a couple of months…
This would have been the way
Same here. Cancelled the day the blackout started as sort of a personal statement. Not that I expect that statement to be heard by anyone.
I hear you.
And I hear you!
I stopped reddit usage altogether. Like you. A statement to myself really. But a righteous one because I am standing with the good guys here. And I feel good about myself.
Same here. It’s the least I could do.
I did not cause I know they are monetizing “our” data. Just by participate you already contribute to the platform.
someone should have shown this graph to the dipshits in charge
I really appreciate how Verge has covered this absolute shitshow. The administration is insisting on doing every stupid move possible to get their way, and destroy the communities in the chase to be a generic social TikTok clone.
Good riddance. This place is way better for my mental health.
The Verge’s coverage of this so far has been really good. It’s probably because they think drama like this will get a lot of clicks, but even still I’ve enjoyed their articles.
Lol how dare he frame this like he’s firing employees for not doing their jobs. This isn’t a job dipshit, it’s unpaid volunteer labor that for some dumbass reason you think you’re entitled to just for offering an empty room for people to walk in, decorate, and create community in. Honestly what a POS.
Those fools. I’m not sure anything can save Reddit (from its admins & CEO) at this point.
And it not bad at all, they are making such a spectacular show of how every corpo social media fail and why everyone need to get off of there and run their own community that are federated/distributed.
If I’m reading this correctly, this is blatantly assuming that he would rather loose those 10% than letting them use Reddit for free. He even calls it “subsidizing” them. The tricky part for the CEO-wannabe spez is to know how much of those 10% are content creators. Are users who use third-party apps more prone to post or not? Because let’s face it, if he’s betting on having a thriving social network trying to mimic tiktok, instagram, etc… he’s light years behind. Reddit will never be the choice of shitty influencers and people mimicking each others dances. It’s just too complicated of a network for such a basic user-base.
OR…he just wants to prep things up to sell and disappear. From everything I read, his Eloncrush is the most worrying part of it all.
These 10% are the power users and likely the biggest contributors to the platform. I’m totally okay with letting these guys come here and start up a new community while reddit tries to make it work with the casuals and lurkers.
Losing that 10% is nothing compared to the bot traffic he’s about to claim are legit daily users on his IPO reports.
It’s honestly crazy how poorly this whole thing is being handled. Reddit admins are really showing their true colors and keep doubling down on everything, making themselves look like absolute fools. They realized they don’t have as much power as they wanted and are acting like grumpy children throwing a temper tantrum
Absolutely wild. I used to moderate a local-area subreddit with around 39K members and decided to just cut my losses. Deleted my account and never looked back! I was happy to see that the remaining mods stuck with our 2-day blackout plan.
Honestly though, it was such a miserable job. Constant bad-faith arguments from folks trying to post heinous comments about asylum seekers, LGBTQ+ folks, etc. It really makes you lose faith in your fellow man. I’m very happy to have given it up. I guess this is why Facebook spends millions of dollars on content moderation – it’s very taxing.
Meanwhile reddit is shitting all over the people who were donating these millions of dollars worth of content moderation to them.
Anybody who invests in the reddit IPO must be an absolute idiot.
Seriously. There are tech companies out there which are 100% scams and they are better run than reddit. They do not understand how their own product works. DO NOT BUY!!!
Well, if the guy really wants to be Elon and follow the example from the Twitter, then shutting down moderation to let the racism, homophobia and science denial run rampant is all part of the genius plan.
It’s insane that any CEO would point to Twitter and say, “that’s the model we want to follow”. They are making like 5 figures worth of money on subscriptions, they have lost tons of advertising due to their content policies in the Elon era, and people generally feel unsafe so a bunch of people left the platform. What is redeeming about any of that?
Not surprised but the look just gets worse and worse.
deleted by creator
The same mods as before, or is the list different?
deleted by creator
Wow those subs are glorious xD
TIHI mods have moved here btw: TIHI@kbin.social
I just got a threat from them on one of the subs I moderate that is private and has been for years. It included this gem:
We already know what their “next steps” are. It will be interesting to see if they ban my account as well. I’ve already nuked all of my comments and posts. Fuck them.
Seems reddit admins have taken a “get in line or get lost” approach to their volunteer mods. Let’s see how that works out for them.
Judging by the comments you get if you suggest switching away from Reddit, Reddit will do very well. I won’t be there, but they’ll be successful even if the site goes more to shit.
It is shocking how emotionally attached some people seem to be to Reddit and how they lash out when you suggest alternatives.
I wonder if it’s an age thing, people pushing 40 like me have seen plenty of sites come and go an have transitioned with them. If you’re under say 25, you may have been using Reddit your whole life on the internet.
Dialup BBSes->usenet->Slashdot->Digg->Reddit->Lemmy. I’m sure it’ll happen again.
Lemmy really reminds me of those old BBSes though – I’m connecting to my local server, it’s federating messages like FIDOnet used to do, just much faster :)
You left out IRC. It’s #channel drama was fantastic back in they day. Using net-splits to take over channels. Finding some jerk’s running an open proxy and using it to get the IP klined.
I was struggling to remember FIDOnet! UUCP kept NNTP keept popping into my head.
My IRC experience is largely limited to openprojects.net (later freenode), and it had tools in place to prevent that drama. By the time the network collapsed under post-lilo management, I had already moved on. The drama that existed on other servers felt like rumour only.
Hey I’m barely 20, didn’t use 3rd party slots, and I still migrated here.
Edit:3rd party apps*
It sounds like this was done without any warning, too. Subs can, and have, changed their rules many times. Users voting to allow NSFW content is already precedented.
Unilaterally removing mods who are in direct compliance with your order to reopen the sub isn’t a good look, particularly since one of the biggest drivers of this protest is the lack of communication with mods.
It’s a bold strategy Cotton.
Apparently, those subreddits are now not only open, but completely unmoderated. Reddit’s solution was to remove the mods and put nobody else in charge. I’m sure that won’t backfire in any way whatsoever! /s
subreddits like r/askhistorians only work because of high quality moderators who REALLY know their subject matter.
I can see that working out beautifully.
inb4 shittyaskhistorians
Would be a shame if people just started posting tons of animal porn to them
You just reminded me of a classic sketch
https://youtu.be/wcmzuDS62i0
Hahaha that was awesome
Wait that’s hilarious. I wonder how long because it all just fall apart under a pile of john olivers and shock videos
Quality of posts on Reddit has nosedived over the last week.
Perhaps we can learn from this. As I raised my whiskers from r/programming as it went dark and as took in the Reddit landscape. I dare convey the disgust of my view and what once was a fairly decent host of valid servers covering meaningful content and topics has became home to some of the foulest users and mods alike, hosting some of the most absurd and leud servers. Looking for another habitat for this ole cat, I found none… r/programming is still down but even if it opens the doors under new moderation, I will not be returning as those that made the subreddit what it was will not be there, thus they may as well parse it with r/programminghumor and be done with it.
I am glad to see other programmers like @tyfi take a stand as well and break ground here. I’m hopeful for this small community. 🐈⬛
Even if mods still want to continue modding their aubreddits you’d have to have taken a shot to the heart after years of free work with what Reddit is doing now. This has been one of the worst displays of ignorance and ungratefulness I’ve ever seen portrayed on an online forum that’s supposedly operated by professionals.
Good.
Tubgirl for everyone!
Crazy.
For a public spokesperson, this is such a hostile and condescending response:
That is a very strange reply, you’d think reddit would have the standard answers figured out lol. Especially for a company that wants to go public you’d expect spokespersons who give the “we are committed to our communities and their interests” answers.
In their legendary AMA, those answers were clearly something they didn’t come up with on the spot.
I hope The Verge keeps tearing them a new one.
I quite enjoyed reading that quote. You can practically see the columnist rolling their eyes. Does this spokesperson not understand how to say “no comment”?
He’s just taking cues from the hostile behaviors he has seen at the top over there…
“I learned it from you, Spez! I learned it from you!”
Even if you wanted to stay as a mod you’d have to have taken a shot to the heart after all of Reddits shinanigans lately. Years of free effort and this is the thanks you get. Absolutely disgusting betrayal of people who have done a mostly fantastic job keeping the wheels on the beast all these years and I’m absolutely stunned they did it.
RIP Reddit as we currently know it.
Irrefutable. 🐈⬛